Sort the Mind's Contents
When meditating study carefully how the mind operates in relation to its inability or ability to assume silence without disturbing thoughts, ideas or images. A personal study of that is necessary to get the particulars and leverage developed so that on command the mind can be brought to order.
The study itself is empowering. It also lends a hand in making the observing self realize itself in the mind as a psychic object in the mind and not as the mind itself. The mind will then be experienced as a container in which the I-self resides like a man in a house, where the man used to think that he is the house then he realized that he was one of the objects in the residence and that the residence was a container.
Once the sorting begins as to there being a mental container and a resident I-self in it, then the study of what happens in that container can be made. The situation is such that no one wants to walk about in his house with tacks sticking into his foot every time he walks here or there. There has to be a cleanup so that all the tacks are removed from the floor, to make it favorable to the soles of the feet.
So the observation of what else is in the mind is then executed.
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Michael Beloved Ajit Ajit Kumar Das,
Thanks for your response and your stated experience. My experience is the opposite, where mind is ocean but thought may be compared to small pond. I find that the thoughts begin as something miniscule, microscopic. Then if they do not cease they develop further and expand full size so that one perceives them as one would a physical reality for instance. But this takes place in a vast oceanic mind in comparison.
The comparison however is only in reference to the miniscule thought energy which begins a thought or memory-thought. Otherwise the mind itself being always bigger than the thoughts it generates, is only as large as the psyche of the individual. And what is the size of the psyche. It is the size of the subtle body but mostly it is experienced in the head of the subtle body, because there is where the thought displays are generated.
I do appreciate your description however and note it as your meditation experience. -
Ajit Kumar Das Michael Beloved thanks for your explanations. Mana eva manusyanaam karana bandha mokshaya. Means mind of man is the cause of salvation or slavery. So mind of a man/ woman is a part of universal thought, similarly self of supreme self.
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Ajit Kumar Das Raj Kumar Dham namaste. Body is hardware and mind software. Subtle body consisting of mind, intelligence & ego. Chitta or region of heart not mechanical heart of our body is the place of God, full of ecstasy. No time, no space, self illuminated, only love, only happiness. Kindness is key to such heart. Kind hearted can see Krupasindhu, ocean of mercy. Harekrishna.
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Raj Kumar Dham Thanks Ajit Ajit Kumar Das ji .
As in the English language there is no equavalent word for Chitta they are not able to comprehend the Chitta or Chitt .For Chitt also they use Mind but it is much much more than mind .
To understand it fully Swami Vivekanand ji explains :- How we see through the eyes ,the eye is the external instrument,we need also the brain Centre and the agency of mind .First there is the instrument,then there is the organ ( brain ) ,and third ,the mind attachment to these two .The mind takes the impression further in ,and presents it to the determinative faculty - Buddhi ( intellect) -- which reacts .Along with this reaction flashes the idea of egoism ( based on our samaskaras or in neuro science impressions) .
Then this mixture of action and reaction is presented to the Purusa ,the real Soul ,who perceives an object in this mixture.The organs ( Indirias ), together with the mind ( manas ) ,the determinative faculty ( Buddhi) and egoism ( Ahamkara ) ,form the group called Antahkarana ( the internal instrument) .They are but various processes in the mind-stuff ,called Chitta .
The waves of thoughts in the Chitta are called Vritti ( " the whirlpool" is the literal translation) .Unless and until we understand this -
Raj Kumar Dham ...We cannot understand thoughts and ..
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Ajit Kumar Das Thanks Raj Kumar Dham. Very nice explanation. Yoga chitta vriti nirodha. Swami Vivekananda had explained nicely in Raj yoga.
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Raj Kumar Dham Now before we go " Sort the Mind Content "
We have to know how the content is stored or impressions are registered .
What is thought?
Now the science also says thought is a force ,as is gravitation or repulsion ( magnet ) .
It is absorbed from the infinite storehouse of force in nature ; the Chitta( mind stuff ) takes
Hold of that force ,and ,when it passes out at other end it is called thought .This force is supplied to us through food and out of that the body obtains the power of motion,etc .Other the finer forces ,it throws out in what we call thought . Naturally we see that mind is not intelligent; yet it appears to be intelligent.Why ? Because the intelligent soul is behind it .You are the only sentient being ; mind is only instrument through which you catch the exte world .Take this book ; as a book it doesn't exist outside,what exist outside is unknown and unknowable .It is the suggestion that gives a blow to the mind ,and the mind gives out the reaction .
If a stone is thrown into the water the water is thrown against it in the form of waves.
The real universe is the occasion of the reaction of the mind .
John Stuart Mill said " Matter is the " permanent possibility of sensation ."
These Vrittis are our whole univrs -
Raj Kumar Dham Swami Vivekanand ji has explained this by giving the example of how the pearls are formed / made .A grain of sand or something gets inside and begins to irritate it,and the oyster throws a sort of enamelling around the sand ,and this makes the pearl .
This whole univrse is our own enamel ,so to say ,and the real universe is the grain of sand .The ordinary man will never understand it, because when he tries to,he throws out an enamel ,and sees only his own enamel .Now you can understand what is meant by these Vrittis .The real man is behind the mind ,and the mind is the instrument in his hands ,and it is the intelligence that is percolating throu it .It is only when you stand behind it that it becomes intelligent.
So you understand what is meant by Chitta .It is the mind stuff ,and Vrittis are the waves and ripples rising in it when external causes impinge on it .These Vrittis are our whole universe . -
Michael Beloved Raj Raj Kumar Dham,
I am really disappointed with one of your statements. I was assuming that you were a broad minded person, but your statement says otherwise. Here is what you wrote:
As in the English language there is no equavalent word for Chitta they are not able to comprehend the Chitta or Chitt .For Chitt also they use Mind but it is much much more than mind .
I am appalled that you said that “they” are not able to comprehend chitta.
Who exactly do you refer to by “they”? What does that mean?
Does it mean that every person who has English as the native language cannot understand chitta.
Does that mean that they do not experience chitta?
What does that mean?
This is terrible that you are suggesting that people do not experience chitta.
Or that another language has no word or words for chitta.
That statement suggest that only people like yourself and yogis of Indian descent can experience what chitta is.
How is that? -
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Michael Beloved How is that?
What is the basis of such a statement?
Is chitta native to all the atmas (animals and other lifeforms included) in the creations or not?
Or is it only resident in Indian body people? -
Michael Beloved You listed vritti as being:
The waves of thoughts in the Chitta are called Vritti
Waves of thought but why not stick with Patanjali as the reference from his meanings and not use a Swami of repute unless that Swami also sticks to the context. Waves of thought may be referring to four of the five psychic items listed as vrittis. What about the one terms as sleep. Do you experience that as a wave of thought. Why are we not sticking to Patanjali as the reference and staying with his listing:
वृत्तयः पञ्चतय्यः क्लिष्टा अक्लिष्टाः॥५॥
vṛttayaḥ pañcatayyaḥ kliṣṭā akliṣṭāḥ
vṛttayaḥ – the vibrations in mento-emotional energy; pañcatayyaḥ – fivefold; kliṣṭākliṣṭāḥ = kliṣṭā – agonizing + akliṣṭāḥ – non-troublesome.
The vibrations in the mento-emotional energy are five-fold, being agonizing or non-troublesome. (Yoga Sutras 5.) -
Michael Beloved प्रमाणविपर्ययविकल्पनिद्रास्मृतयः॥६॥
pramāṇa viparyaya vikalpa nidrā smṛtayaḥ
pramāṇa – correct perception; viparyaya – incorrect perception; vikalpa – imagination; nidrā – sleep; smṛtayaḥ – memory.
They are correct perception, incorrect perception, imagination, sleep and memory. (Yoga Sutras 1.6)
Patanjali also give singular descriptions of these and suggests methodsof dealing with each of these vrittis. Why is it that you do not mention that but instead you mention a Swami. Why not explain Patanjali and then ad that a Swami added this or that, or that a Swami dismissed Patanjali because that person had something more effective? -
Raj Kumar Dham Michael Beloved , my reference is to English language only not everyone who's native language is English.People who have done sadhana ( practice) and have studied the Yoga Sutras and have even translated ,they have understood Chitta and What is Yoga , irrespective of their native language or origin .Though I am an Indian my knowledge of Sanskrit is very very limited .
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Raj Kumar Dham I have referred to Swami Vivekanand ji only who was a Yogi and has written Commentary on Patanjali Yoga Sutras and also on Raja Yoga . He has explained in detail about the Yoga Sutras ,nothing against Patanjali and I loved Vivekanand ji and his guru Paramhamsa Ramakrishna ji .I have read both of them in English and I was Inspired by them .
Don't try to be little them by saying some swamy .If you have not read about them and understood them donot pass some comments casually .Yogini also passed some wrong comments about Swami Vivekanand ji.
How can one justify the title " Separation Yoga " .These two words are poles apart ,and have contrary meaning .
Do you justify the title " Separation Yoga " ?
You always try to pick some words ,words are not that important the concept,the idea ,the philosophy and the context in which they are said .I agree your command on English is good .I referred to English language .
Earlier also you took up " surrender "in some other way .
Purity of heart is the most important thing for me and this is helping me in learni, understanding and moving forward on the path of truth and spirituality.
I love everyone including Yogini and you ,as see the divinity in everyone. -
Michael Beloved Raj Raj Kumar Dham,
I did not use the term "Separation Yoga." And if there is a question about it, I feel that the question should be: Separation from What?
In relation to "Union Yoga," the inquiry should be: Union with What?
There would be no arguments or disagreements if those two questions were answered. The salt doll is separated from the physical world where it has that form when it is unified with the ocean and loses its individual format. That is how I would use those terms.
Dandavats! -
Erinn Earth ~ (devaPriya Yogini) Yoga = Separation from the Vrittis.
so that,
union with higher energy sources or persons can occur.
It's simple but apparently aggravating to those who misinterpret.
Raj's feelings on Vivekananda's are but an opinion shared by many.
But this still doesn't mean that Vivekanada inspires everyone in the same way.
Some of us need more.
Some of us are far from satisfied with his insights and conclusions.
I was a long term student of blessed Swami Sivananda who is like a grandfather to me.
But I needed more.
It is my opinion that the writer of this post is a more advanced yogi then those being defended here....and I found the evidence by studying his books and LEARNING THE PRACTICE.
A side by side comparison of texts is good for anyone who has questions about comparisons.
I once did a side by side comparison of Michael Beloved's Bhagavad Gita Explained and Swami Bhaktivedanta's Gita. What I discovered in the differences in their translations and missionary influence was stunning. -
Raj Kumar Dham Yes Michael Beloved,my question to Erinn Earth ~ (devaPriya Yogini) is as she has created Separation Yoga and she says it is to separate the Vrittis .To separate the Vrittis from what ?
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Raj Kumar Dham Erinn Earth ~ (devaPriya Yogini) You have written union with higher energy or persons .Will you explain what these higher energies and persons .
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Erinn Earth ~ (devaPriya Yogini) Raj Kumar Dham - We separate the core-self (spiritual person, atma) from the vrittis.
In verse three Patanjali confirms this by stating: "Then the perceiver is situated in his own form - svarupe.
When we separate from the vrittis we open up a possibility of connecting harmoniously with higher energies or persons.
Do you not experience this?
In some cases when a person achieves this they sense a connection with spiritual energies or dimensional environments, not actual people.
In more advanced cases when separation occurs, an experience of not just a spiritual environment but also individual spiritual people living within that energy takes place.
Currently we may achieve momentary states of freedom or separation from the vrittis, but then we resume them again, don't we?
Therefore I approve of the word separation because until you no longer resume usage of any vrittis whatsoever and you are liberated, then you will have to practice separating from them again and again. -
Erinn Earth ~ (devaPriya Yogini) Raj Raj Kumar Dham -
Study of Vedic cosmology can help one understand the hierarchy of Deities and energetic locations/dimensions/lokas we may achieve through Patanjali's separation program.
That is, if you are not experiencing these things in meditation.
But since you asked the question I will assume you are not. -
Raj Kumar Dham Neither the Seperation takes place nor the Union takes place but the SHIFT takes place in awareness.
Due to that shift “then the perceived is situated in his own form —swarupa SATCHITANAND
The person is alive and all the inputs from the senses are taking place but these inputs are not creating any ripples in chitta and due to that Nirodha is there . -
Raj Kumar Dham Erinn Earth ~ (devaPriya Yogini) Atama is beyond Vrittis ,virittis are modifications of the mind and not of the atama ,where is the question of separating the atama from the soul .
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Raj Kumar Dham PS typo automatic mistake read as “where is the question of separating the atama from the vrittis “
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Erinn Earth ~ (devaPriya Yogini) Raj Kumar Dham -
Considering verse three, are you really saying that Patanjali's meaning of svarupe is 'mind'?
I disagree.
I think svarupe is the soul, not the mind.
Svarupe is the core self, or spiritual person.
I disagree with you notion that the mind does not effect the soul.
Krishna says there are two types of souls, affected and unaffected.
Raj, maybe you are so unaffected you cannot see Patanjail's point and forgot that there are other types of souls.
It would be good for you to check Yoga Sutras Chapter 2 Verses 23-25.
He discusses in detail the conjunction between the individual self and the psychological energies.
He says this conjunction is based on ignorance and that the elimination of the conjunction is the withdrawal, that is the TOTAL SEPARATION of the PERCEIVER, from the MUNDANE PSYCHOLOGY.
That perceiver is the svarupe, the atma, the individual spirit.
Thanks for all the comments
OM TAT SAT -
Raj Kumar Dham Erinn Earth ~ (devaPriya Yogini)
I have not said that savrupa is mind .
It is the self .
One is not able to see or feel the self due to the ripples rising in the mind (Vrittis ) .
Vrittis are created by the mind not by the self . Vrittis are modifications of the mind and not the self .I am very very clear about this . -
Raj Kumar Dham Swami Vivekanand ji has very nicely described this by taking the mattafer of the lake .
Bottom of the lake is self .Due to mud one is not able to see it .If you throw a stone it creates ripples in the water and then one is not able to see the bottom ( self ) .
If one removes the mud and ripples are not there one can see the SELF.
Ripples are like virritis .When the virritis are not there one will see the SELF.
Yogas Chittavritti Nirodha . -
Raj Kumar Dham Self is always pure the Vrittis in the Chitta are hiding the self like dust on the mirror .The moment you remove the dust the self ( savrupa) is visible .
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Erinn Earth ~ (devaPriya Yogini) Raj Kumar Dham -
You're almost getting it.
You used the word REMOVE.
That is another way of saying separate.
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Don't forget about Krishna informing us about the two types of souls:
Affected and Unaffected.
You don't seem to really listen Raj, only to react/reply.
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Raj Kumar Dham Erinn Earth ~ (devaPriya Yogini) ,the removing or separating from what .You are saying separating from SAVRUPA,where as it is from CHITTA .That is my objection . SAVRUPA is pure uncontaminated .You must say separating vrittis from mind /Chitta and not from Savrupa or soul .You are trying to blame me and not accepting your mistake/blunder .
Krishna in Bhagwat Gita tells Arjuna about ATAMA which is beyond birth and death . -
Erinn Earth ~ (devaPriya Yogini) Raj Raj Kumar Dham- Not sure I can help you anymore Raj, I've said all I can. You won't acknowledge the obvious. Take care!
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Iwona Roslonek, MEcon, CMA CPA False self-appointed gurus should be avoided as they twist yoga into something it is not and mislead those who seek guidance. Brahman is all there is. You cannot separate your Self. You can only remove the veil of your ignorance or false identity. Until that time confusion rules while you enjoy wearing your labels of “guru” or “yogini” spreading misinformation. That is not helpful.
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Raj Kumar Dham Thanks Iwona Roslonek, MEcon, CMA CPA .Everything we see got manifested from Brahman or Pure Conciousness.
In the beginning there was AKASHA (SPACE) and with the interaction with PRANA (unifying energy ) everything got manifested. -
Raj Kumar Dham Brahman /Conciousness in broder sense is PRANA /KI/Chi
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Iwona Roslonek, MEcon, CMA CPA Raj Kumar Dham you know yoga. It should not be twisted. Om Tat Sat, Om that is the absolute reality. It is all that is. Supreme Absolute Truth. The Living Force. Pure Consciousness. The Brahman. The One without the second. As manifested in you and me and everyone and everything. This is the essence of Gita. This is the essence of Patanjali yoga Sutras. That is YOGA. Unity in diversity. Shakti (the energy) and Shiva (consciousness) united.
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Raj Kumar Dham Om Tat Sat . Sachidananda = Sat+ Chit + Ananda .
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Raj Kumar Dham Michael Beloved ,what you have described is CHITTA and mind is just a part of it ,
Swami Vivekananda ji in his book “Conquering the Internal Nature Raja Yoga “ has talked about Prana And The Psychic Prana
The aim of Pranayama is to rouse the coiled-up powerin the Muladhara,called the Kundalini.
Everything that we see ,or imagine ,or dream ,we have to perceive in space ,This is the ordinary space ,called the Mahaakasha,or elemental space .When the Yogi reads the thoughts of other men ,or perceives super sensuous objects ,he sees them in another sort of space called the Chitta-Akasha,the mental space .When the perception has become objectless ,and the soul shines in its own nature ,it is called the Chidakasha or knowledge space .When the Kundalini is aroused and enters the canal of the Sukshamana,all the perceptions are in the mental space .When it has reached that end of the canal which opens out into the brain ,the objectless perception is in the knowledge space . -
Raj Kumar Dham As you have also indicated that Mind Cleansing/ Purification is very important.
When Prof K N Krishnaswamy and my self were developing BMP ( Body Mind Programming) ,which is accessing our Inner Computer or the Power Within and then Programming it to achieve goals or Creating Future .We realised the importance of Purification of Heart and Cleansing of the Mind and did research in this and developed systematic methodology for it .
Our Heart Centre or Anahata Chakra is important and we worked on activating it and developed BMP Kriya . -
Raj Kumar Dham You have named as Sorting the Mind Content- great .
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Raj Kumar Dham Mind Cleansing or Heart Purification is most important and essential.Any Meditation must have methods for it .There are many practices for this and in BMP (Body Mind Programming ) which is a meditative method we have developed methods/practices for Mind Cleansing and Purification of the heart .
Erinn Earth ~ (devaPriya Yogini) Thank you for such clear instruction. All organization begins and ends with sorting things out.
Raj Kumar Dham That's wonderful but I have observed that in majority of the Yoga Studios ( calling yoga centre a studio is not that good ) the emphasis is not on purification of heart .
Many of the people who claim of Kundalini awakened have power but heart is not fully pure .
Paul Vas So nice to read.. I find repeating a mantra or a charged word like "OM" helps to focus attention and calms one into a mindfulness state.
Gail Cooney Our Soles and our Souls! Even though our practice area is called a Studio;-) purification of thought and heart is practised via Bhuta Shuddhi... I learnt these techniques in Swasthya Yoga. This same lightness of being is "unveiled" in White Tantra.. I am not a qualified Kundalini Instructor, but from my experiences of White Tantra, 6 days, the emphasis is on purification...The result is bliss, it shines out of every cell, especially the eyes, transforms the local environment and alters life!! Grace and Gratitude..
Avau Neueli preparation - yamas and niyamas to be in a way so one can be stable enough...to come to a place of sitting...to observe...to allow what needs to arise...to arise...to release them...to be...
Muz Murray Nice simile, Michael, but not as a 'container'. That's giving 'mind' more reality than it is. Mind is not a thing, but a sporadic thought-flow and has no reality in itself. That becomes evident when watched from the position of the Observer.
Michael Beloved Muz Murray,
Thanks for sharing your experience. Mine is different where the mind (manas) is a container, just as the physical body had contents. Mind is also real to me. It is not a sporadic thought-flow but is a container (psychic one) in which sporadic thought-flows occur like a sky in which sporadic clouds appear and disappear.
To me, mind is not a thing, not a physical thing but a psychic thing which is real. The observer watches what happens in that psychic container and is one of the psychic components in the container.
However, your experience of this is duly noted by me. Thanks!
Denise Oosterbaan Maybe it's a suggestion to talk about fluidity in mind's appearance. Attention, listening and awareness and intention related to responsibility co-creating with the universal oneness. Thank you for all your input, very inspiring to consider.
Ajit Kumar Das Thoughts r flow in mind. Thought is ocean but mind small pond. Cleaning is like stabilising