Mohanakrishnan RI do not know whether this an allusion where the message conveyed is paramount, though most do not beleive in spirits communicating with us. in that case Hitler, concentration camps holocaust are irrelevant in this particular group. If the story is more about "spirits" then also it has nothing to do with either Yoga or meditation IMO!
Michael BelovedIs Bhagavad Gita about yoga and meditation??????
śarīraṁ — by body; yad — which; avāpnoti — he acquires; yat — which; cāpi — and also; utkrāmatīśvaraḥ = utkrāmati — departs from + īśvaraḥ — master; gṛhītvaitāni = gṛhītvā — taking + etāni — these; saṁyāti — he goes; vāyuḥ — wind; gandhān — perfumes; ivāśayāt = ivā — just as + āśayāt — from source
Regardless of whichever body that master acquires, or whichever one he departs from, he goes taking these senses along, just as the wind goes with the perfumes from their source. (Bhagavad Gita 15.8)
utkrāmantaṁ — departing; sthitaṁ — remaining; vāpi = vā — or + api — also; bhuñjānaṁ — exploiting; vā — or; guṇānvitam — under the influence of material nature; vimūḍhā — idiots; nānupaśyanti = na — not + aupaśyanti — they perceived; paśyanti — they perceive; jñānacakṣuṣaḥ — vision of reality
The idiots do not perceive how the spirit departs or remains or exploits under the influence of material nature. But those who have the vision of reality do perceive this. (Bhagavad Gita 15.10)
Mohanakrishnan RNo Bhagavad Gita is not about Yoga or meditation. Karma Yoga, Gnana Yoga etc are not "Yoga" as defined by Patanjali. Only the word is common but used in an entirely different sense. Secondly Bhagavad Gita including the passages you have misquoted do not talk about ghosts and spirits. If the Atma or Brahman takes the senses of the Jeeva or its temporary abode, why on earth people do not remember what they were in their previous birth? IMO it should represent the carry over of karma. Once again the second passage quoted has also been strangely interpreted by you. IMO it only means that the Atman appears to take the character of its environs and is an illusion. A white cloth behind a green glass appears to be green though actually it is white.
None of the Darshanas, Upanishad or Brahmanas are naive enough to talk of ghosts and apparitions. IMO people who think so are propagating their own myth in the name of great philosophies.
Michael BelovedIt is your opinion only that yoga is not in Bhagavad Gita. Just as it is my opinion that it is in the Gita and that Karma Yoga is Karma + Yoga, with Yoga being the same ashtanga yoga of Patanjali.
Two determined people cannot agree on anything which is sensitive to either of them. Therefore this is not an attempt to convince you of anything. It is however my explanation of my view on the topic. I do respect your right to your opinion.
You asked a question, I assume, I give an answer following: If the Atma or Brahman takes the senses of the Jeeva or its temporary abode, why on earth people do not remember what they were in their previous birth?
Michael BelovedReply: Before I answer this question, I must ask you to answer a simpler question especially since you are presenting information as an authority. Question for you to answer is: Who does the atma or brahman which has sense of Jeeva not remember incidences from the present birth even, like incidences of what happened yesterday or years ago for instance?
Your statement: IMO it should represent the carry over of karma. Once again the second passage quoted has also been strangely interpreted by you. IMO it only means that the Atman appears to take the character of its environs and is an illusion. A white cloth behind a green glass appears to be green though actually it is white.
Reply:
Does it follow from this logic the person who wrote this is also an illusion? If so why should I reply to this?
Michael BelovedYour Statement: None of the Darshanas, Upanishad or Brahmanas are naive enough to talk of ghosts and apparitions. IMO people who think so are propagating their own myth in the name of great philosophies.
Reply: This is as you said your opinion. To me ghost means the subtle casing just as there is a physical casing which you indicated to be illusion but at the same time you contradict yourself because if the subtle and gross casings are all illusions, then you are an illusion and therefore it does not make sense to hold a conversation with an illusion. I hope you agree to this.
It would also follow from your statement that not just you but even I am an illusion.’ In which case I as a fellow illusion would suggest that you do the sensible thing which would be to ignore my posts. One illusion could respect the other illusion, I am sure you would agree.
Mohanakrishnan RAs you say two determined people cannot agree on something that is sensitive to both. Then you should have left at that that! Since you continued I am forced to drag on!
I can interpret the verses of Gita from the perspective of all three schools of Vedanta philosophy and it would suffice to say that none of these interpretations can logically admit ghosts and spirits. Let us come to that later.
What is this "casing" about? Which philosophy mentions it? Do not bring in mythology here.
I will answer the question of illusions shortly.
Mohanakrishnan RAs per Dvaita Brahman is the boss and each and every entity is a separate Jeeva under the control of the Brahman. Hence Jeeva carries its Karmic effects till the Brahman decides otherwise. It morphs according to Karma.
Mohanakrishnan RAs per Visisthadvita Jeeva is a single entity meaning that each being is not a separate Jeeva. All jeevas are combinations of matter, life and energy a different proportions and they morph when the proportion changes though the sum total of the elements remains constant. This unchanged whole is Brahman. Jeeva is construed as a part of the Brahman. Neither can exist independently. Parts compensate one another to maintain this equilibrium. Obviously an erring part is compensated by other parts and is in turn affected.
Lisa Drago Whew! Wow.
Mohanakrishnan R I do not know whether this an allusion where the message conveyed is paramount, though most do not beleive in spirits communicating with us. in that case Hitler, concentration camps holocaust are irrelevant in this particular group. If the story is more about "spirits" then also it has nothing to do with either Yoga or meditation IMO!
Michael Beloved Is Bhagavad Gita about yoga and meditation??????
शरीरं यदवाप्नोति
यच्चाप्युत्क्रामतीश्वरः ।
गृहीत्वैतानि संयाति
वायुर्गन्धानिवाशयात् ॥१५.८॥
śarīraṁ yadavāpnoti
yaccāpyutkrāmatīśvaraḥ
gṛhītvaitāni saṁyāti
vāyurgandhānivāśayāt (15.8)
śarīraṁ — by body; yad — which; avāpnoti — he acquires; yat — which; cāpi — and also; utkrāmatīśvaraḥ = utkrāmati — departs from + īśvaraḥ — master; gṛhītvaitāni = gṛhītvā — taking + etāni — these; saṁyāti — he goes; vāyuḥ — wind; gandhān — perfumes; ivāśayāt = ivā — just as + āśayāt — from source
Regardless of whichever body that master acquires, or whichever one he departs from, he goes taking these senses along, just as the wind goes with the perfumes from their source. (Bhagavad Gita 15.8)
Michael Beloved What is jñānacakṣuṣaḥ?
उत्क्रामन्तं स्थितं वापि
भुञ्जानं वा गुणान्वितम् ।
विमूढा नानुपश्यन्ति
पश्यन्ति ज्ञानचक्षुषः ॥१५.१०॥
utkrāmantaṁ sthitaṁ vāpi
bhuñjānaṁ vā guṇānvitam
vimūḍhā nānupaśyanti
paśyanti jñānacakṣuṣaḥ (15.10)
utkrāmantaṁ — departing; sthitaṁ — remaining; vāpi = vā — or + api — also; bhuñjānaṁ — exploiting; vā — or; guṇānvitam — under the influence of material nature; vimūḍhā — idiots; nānupaśyanti = na — not + aupaśyanti — they perceived; paśyanti — they perceive; jñānacakṣuṣaḥ — vision of reality
The idiots do not perceive how the spirit departs or remains or exploits under the influence of material nature. But those who have the vision of reality do perceive this. (Bhagavad Gita 15.10)
Mohanakrishnan R No Bhagavad Gita is not about Yoga or meditation. Karma Yoga, Gnana Yoga etc are not "Yoga" as defined by Patanjali. Only the word is common but used in an entirely different sense. Secondly Bhagavad Gita including the passages you have misquoted do not talk about ghosts and spirits. If the Atma or Brahman takes the senses of the Jeeva or its temporary abode, why on earth people do not remember what they were in their previous birth? IMO it should represent the carry over of karma. Once again the second passage quoted has also been strangely interpreted by you. IMO it only means that the Atman appears to take the character of its environs and is an illusion. A white cloth behind a green glass appears to be green though actually it is white.
None of the Darshanas, Upanishad or Brahmanas are naive enough to talk of ghosts and apparitions. IMO people who think so are propagating their own myth in the name of great philosophies.
Michael Beloved It is your opinion only that yoga is not in Bhagavad Gita. Just as it is my opinion that it is in the Gita and that Karma Yoga is Karma + Yoga, with Yoga being the same ashtanga yoga of Patanjali.
Two determined people cannot agree on anything which is sensitive to either of them. Therefore this is not an attempt to convince you of anything. It is however my explanation of my view on the topic. I do respect your right to your opinion.
You asked a question, I assume, I give an answer following:
If the Atma or Brahman takes the senses of the Jeeva or its temporary abode, why on earth people do not remember what they were in their previous birth?
Michael Beloved Reply:
Before I answer this question, I must ask you to answer a simpler question especially since you are presenting information as an authority. Question for you to answer is:
Who does the atma or brahman which has sense of Jeeva not remember incidences from the present birth even, like incidences of what happened yesterday or years ago for instance?
Your statement:
IMO it should represent the carry over of karma. Once again the second passage quoted has also been strangely interpreted by you. IMO it only means that the Atman appears to take the character of its environs and is an illusion. A white cloth behind a green glass appears to be green though actually it is white.
Reply:
Does it follow from this logic the person who wrote this is also an illusion? If so why should I reply to this?
Michael Beloved Your Statement:
None of the Darshanas, Upanishad or Brahmanas are naive enough to talk of ghosts and apparitions. IMO people who think so are propagating their own myth in the name of great philosophies.
Reply:
This is as you said your opinion. To me ghost means the subtle casing just as there is a physical casing which you indicated to be illusion but at the same time you contradict yourself because if the subtle and gross casings are all illusions, then you are an illusion and therefore it does not make sense to hold a conversation with an illusion. I hope you agree to this.
It would also follow from your statement that not just you but even I am an illusion.’ In which case I as a fellow illusion would suggest that you do the sensible thing which would be to ignore my posts. One illusion could respect the other illusion, I am sure you would agree.
Mohanakrishnan R As you say two determined people cannot agree on something that is sensitive to both. Then you should have left at that that! Since you continued I am forced to drag on!
I can interpret the verses of Gita from the perspective of all three schools of Vedanta philosophy and it would suffice to say that none of these interpretations can logically admit ghosts and spirits. Let us come to that later.
What is this "casing" about? Which philosophy mentions it? Do not bring in mythology here.
I will answer the question of illusions shortly.
Mohanakrishnan R As per Dvaita Brahman is the boss and each and every entity is a separate Jeeva under the control of the Brahman. Hence Jeeva carries its Karmic effects till the Brahman decides otherwise. It morphs according to Karma.
Mohanakrishnan R As per Visisthadvita Jeeva is a single entity meaning that each being is not a separate Jeeva. All jeevas are combinations of matter, life and energy a different proportions and they morph when the proportion changes though the sum total of the elements remains constant. This unchanged whole is Brahman. Jeeva is construed as a part of the Brahman. Neither can exist independently. Parts compensate one another to maintain this equilibrium. Obviously an erring part is compensated by other parts and is in turn affected.