Thanks for your response and your stated experience. My experience is the opposite, where mind is ocean but thought may be compared to small pond. I find that the thoughts begin as something miniscule, microscopic. Then if they do not cease they develop further and expand full size so that one perceives them as one would a physical reality for instance. But this takes place in a vast oceanic mind in comparison.
The comparison however is only in reference to the miniscule thought energy which begins a thought or memory-thought. Otherwise the mind itself being always bigger than the thoughts it generates, is only as large as the psyche of the individual. And what is the size of the psyche. It is the size of the subtle body but mostly it is experienced in the head of the subtle body, because there is where the thought displays are generated.
I do appreciate your description however and note it as your meditation experience.
Ajit Kumar DasMichael Beloved thanks for your explanations. Mana eva manusyanaam karana bandha mokshaya. Means mind of man is the cause of salvation or slavery. So mind of a man/ woman is a part of universal thought, similarly self of supreme self.
Ajit Kumar DasRaj Kumar Dham namaste. Body is hardware and mind software. Subtle body consisting of mind, intelligence & ego. Chitta or region of heart not mechanical heart of our body is the place of God, full of ecstasy. No time, no space, self illuminated, only love, only happiness. Kindness is key to such heart. Kind hearted can see Krupasindhu, ocean of mercy. Harekrishna.
Raj Kumar DhamThanks Ajit Ajit Kumar Das ji . As in the English language there is no equavalent word for Chitta they are not able to comprehend the Chitta or Chitt .For Chitt also they use Mind but it is much much more than mind . To understand it fully Swami Vivekanand ji explains :- How we see through the eyes ,the eye is the external instrument,we need also the brain Centre and the agency of mind .First there is the instrument,then there is the organ ( brain ) ,and third ,the mind attachment to these two .The mind takes the impression further in ,and presents it to the determinative faculty - Buddhi ( intellect) -- which reacts .Along with this reaction flashes the idea of egoism ( based on our samaskaras or in neuro science impressions) . Then this mixture of action and reaction is presented to the Purusa ,the real Soul ,who perceives an object in this mixture.The organs ( Indirias ), together with the mind ( manas ) ,the determinative faculty ( Buddhi) and egoism ( Ahamkara ) ,form the group called Antahkarana ( the internal instrument) .They are but various processes in the mind-stuff ,called Chitta . The waves of thoughts in the Chitta are called Vritti ( " the whirlpool" is the literal translation) .Unless and until we understand this
Ajit Kumar DasThanks Raj Kumar Dham. Very nice explanation. Yoga chitta vriti nirodha. Swami Vivekananda had explained nicely in Raj yoga.
Raj Kumar DhamNow before we go " Sort the Mind Content " We have to know how the content is stored or impressions are registered . What is thought? Now the science also says thought is a force ,as is gravitation or repulsion ( magnet ) . It is absorbed from the infinite storehouse of force in nature ; the Chitta( mind stuff ) takes Hold of that force ,and ,when it passes out at other end it is called thought .This force is supplied to us through food and out of that the body obtains the power of motion,etc .Other the finer forces ,it throws out in what we call thought . Naturally we see that mind is not intelligent; yet it appears to be intelligent.Why ? Because the intelligent soul is behind it .You are the only sentient being ; mind is only instrument through which you catch the exte world .Take this book ; as a book it doesn't exist outside,what exist outside is unknown and unknowable .It is the suggestion that gives a blow to the mind ,and the mind gives out the reaction . If a stone is thrown into the water the water is thrown against it in the form of waves. The real universe is the occasion of the reaction of the mind . John Stuart Mill said " Matter is the " permanent possibility of sensation ." These Vrittis are our whole univrs
Raj Kumar DhamSwami Vivekanand ji has explained this by giving the example of how the pearls are formed / made .A grain of sand or something gets inside and begins to irritate it,and the oyster throws a sort of enamelling around the sand ,and this makes the pearl . This whole univrse is our own enamel ,so to say ,and the real universe is the grain of sand .The ordinary man will never understand it, because when he tries to,he throws out an enamel ,and sees only his own enamel .Now you can understand what is meant by these Vrittis .The real man is behind the mind ,and the mind is the instrument in his hands ,and it is the intelligence that is percolating throu it .It is only when you stand behind it that it becomes intelligent. So you understand what is meant by Chitta .It is the mind stuff ,and Vrittis are the waves and ripples rising in it when external causes impinge on it .These Vrittis are our whole universe .
I am really disappointed with one of your statements. I was assuming that you were a broad minded person, but your statement says otherwise. Here is what you wrote:
As in the English language there is no equavalent word for Chitta they are not able to comprehend the Chitta or Chitt .For Chitt also they use Mind but it is much much more than mind .
I am appalled that you said that “they” are not able to comprehend chitta.
Who exactly do you refer to by “they”? What does that mean? Does it mean that every person who has English as the native language cannot understand chitta.
Does that mean that they do not experience chitta?
What does that mean?
This is terrible that you are suggesting that people do not experience chitta.
Or that another language has no word or words for chitta. That statement suggest that only people like yourself and yogis of Indian descent can experience what chitta is.
Michael Beloved Ajit Ajit Kumar Das,
Thanks for your response and your stated experience. My experience is the opposite, where mind is ocean but thought may be compared to small pond. I find that the thoughts begin as something miniscule, microscopic. Then if they do not cease they develop further and expand full size so that one perceives them as one would a physical reality for instance. But this takes place in a vast oceanic mind in comparison.
The comparison however is only in reference to the miniscule thought energy which begins a thought or memory-thought. Otherwise the mind itself being always bigger than the thoughts it generates, is only as large as the psyche of the individual. And what is the size of the psyche. It is the size of the subtle body but mostly it is experienced in the head of the subtle body, because there is where the thought displays are generated.
I do appreciate your description however and note it as your meditation experience.
Ajit Kumar Das Michael Beloved thanks for your explanations. Mana eva manusyanaam karana bandha mokshaya. Means mind of man is the cause of salvation or slavery. So mind of a man/ woman is a part of universal thought, similarly self of supreme self.
Ajit Kumar Das Raj Kumar Dham namaste. Body is hardware and mind software. Subtle body consisting of mind, intelligence & ego. Chitta or region of heart not mechanical heart of our body is the place of God, full of ecstasy. No time, no space, self illuminated, only love, only happiness. Kindness is key to such heart. Kind hearted can see Krupasindhu, ocean of mercy. Harekrishna.
Raj Kumar Dham Thanks Ajit Ajit Kumar Das ji .
As in the English language there is no equavalent word for Chitta they are not able to comprehend the Chitta or Chitt .For Chitt also they use Mind but it is much much more than mind .
To understand it fully Swami Vivekanand ji explains :- How we see through the eyes ,the eye is the external instrument,we need also the brain Centre and the agency of mind .First there is the instrument,then there is the organ ( brain ) ,and third ,the mind attachment to these two .The mind takes the impression further in ,and presents it to the determinative faculty - Buddhi ( intellect) -- which reacts .Along with this reaction flashes the idea of egoism ( based on our samaskaras or in neuro science impressions) .
Then this mixture of action and reaction is presented to the Purusa ,the real Soul ,who perceives an object in this mixture.The organs ( Indirias ), together with the mind ( manas ) ,the determinative faculty ( Buddhi) and egoism ( Ahamkara ) ,form the group called Antahkarana ( the internal instrument) .They are but various processes in the mind-stuff ,called Chitta .
The waves of thoughts in the Chitta are called Vritti ( " the whirlpool" is the literal translation) .Unless and until we understand this
Raj Kumar Dham ...We cannot understand thoughts and ..
Ajit Kumar Das Thanks Raj Kumar Dham. Very nice explanation. Yoga chitta vriti nirodha. Swami Vivekananda had explained nicely in Raj yoga.
Raj Kumar Dham Now before we go " Sort the Mind Content "
We have to know how the content is stored or impressions are registered .
What is thought?
Now the science also says thought is a force ,as is gravitation or repulsion ( magnet ) .
It is absorbed from the infinite storehouse of force in nature ; the Chitta( mind stuff ) takes
Hold of that force ,and ,when it passes out at other end it is called thought .This force is supplied to us through food and out of that the body obtains the power of motion,etc .Other the finer forces ,it throws out in what we call thought . Naturally we see that mind is not intelligent; yet it appears to be intelligent.Why ? Because the intelligent soul is behind it .You are the only sentient being ; mind is only instrument through which you catch the exte world .Take this book ; as a book it doesn't exist outside,what exist outside is unknown and unknowable .It is the suggestion that gives a blow to the mind ,and the mind gives out the reaction .
If a stone is thrown into the water the water is thrown against it in the form of waves.
The real universe is the occasion of the reaction of the mind .
John Stuart Mill said " Matter is the " permanent possibility of sensation ."
These Vrittis are our whole univrs
Raj Kumar Dham Swami Vivekanand ji has explained this by giving the example of how the pearls are formed / made .A grain of sand or something gets inside and begins to irritate it,and the oyster throws a sort of enamelling around the sand ,and this makes the pearl .
This whole univrse is our own enamel ,so to say ,and the real universe is the grain of sand .The ordinary man will never understand it, because when he tries to,he throws out an enamel ,and sees only his own enamel .Now you can understand what is meant by these Vrittis .The real man is behind the mind ,and the mind is the instrument in his hands ,and it is the intelligence that is percolating throu it .It is only when you stand behind it that it becomes intelligent.
So you understand what is meant by Chitta .It is the mind stuff ,and Vrittis are the waves and ripples rising in it when external causes impinge on it .These Vrittis are our whole universe .
Michael Beloved Raj Raj Kumar Dham,
I am really disappointed with one of your statements. I was assuming that you were a broad minded person, but your statement says otherwise. Here is what you wrote:
As in the English language there is no equavalent word for Chitta they are not able to comprehend the Chitta or Chitt .For Chitt also they use Mind but it is much much more than mind .
I am appalled that you said that “they” are not able to comprehend chitta.
Who exactly do you refer to by “they”? What does that mean?
Does it mean that every person who has English as the native language cannot understand chitta.
Does that mean that they do not experience chitta?
What does that mean?
This is terrible that you are suggesting that people do not experience chitta.
Or that another language has no word or words for chitta.
That statement suggest that only people like yourself and yogis of Indian descent can experience what chitta is.
How is that?