Zen and Core-Self

Meditationtime Forum Post

Date:  Posted 3 years before Jan 07, 2016

MiBeloved 3 years ago

This Zen teacher is using the term core-self. Out of necessity, I practically invented the compound English word but maybe others are using it in other ways and had the need to invent it as well.

The main reason why I invented it was the realization that the words self or Self as it is used in the West points to a psyche and not to a self, except that there is a self in the psyche. Initially when meditating one mistakes this psyche for the self. The self lives in a psyche and so when one goes internally, one is not going into the self but into the psyche in which the self is housed.

The whole thing is cleared up and distinguished in the Bhagavad Gita but people usually go to the Gita to use it to support their conceptions and that prohibits their open mind towards Krishna, leaving them with their ideas only and not with any understanding of what he explained to Arjuna about the comparative similarity of the psyches of each individual entity.

How does this core-self idea sit with you Tobe?

How about it Neil and Bill?

What about it Sir Paul?

What have you researched in this area Jettins?

Hey Darren, I know you are out there in Loveland and perhaps you are fused to another self forever.

Oneness finally, it must be nice. You left us behind in the drab world of dual selves.

What does that look like in reference to this?

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See this page:

LinkDarren 3 years ago

I'm still here alright, and no it has not been so nice of late since you ask.  I overheard someone sing these lyrics to a song today that "Every rose has a thorn"... Unfortunately I know this only too well at the moment.

I will check the link once I get the time.

MiBeloved 3 years ago

Email from Tobe, one of meditationtime members. His computer is having a hitch which makes him unable to post:

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From Tobe:

I’m still unable to respond directly to posting. I check every day to see if it works, but I still get the error message. Here’s the response I would have made to your question.

How does the idea of the core-self sit with me?

I had never used the term until I heard it from you, but I find it useful in two ways:

First, during meditation, as a zone to be focused on in the head.  And second as a concept in forming a paradigm of consciousness.

In meditation I always identify the area or point in the center of the head. It’s the same as the core-self in your illustration. I experience it as an energy center. There is always a light at this location, sometimes white, occasionally golden, sometimes much brighter than at other times. I often move the energy from this point to two other points in the head, the top, which is sometimes identified as the crown chakra or the egress, and the front zone called the third eye. Moving the light in this way helps me to locate the core-self and the egress more particularly. The third eye location is not as specific. Usually I move the energy rapidly from one of these to the other until it becomes like a triangle of light. 

This point, the core-self, is also important in circulating energy up the spine and back down the front of my body. The positive energy that originates in the soles of my feet and in the perineum is brought up the spine, pausing briefly in the center of the back and again at the point of the core-self in the center of the head. This energy is in the form of both a light and a vibration. The intensity varies. Part of my practice is to identify the factors that cause this variation with the goal of intensifying the energy. The next step in circulating the energy again involves the core-self. It is from the core-self that the negative energy originates. This energy is moved down the front of the body pausing briefly at about the point of the sternum bone, passing through the genitals and joining with the rising positive energy at the perineum.

The concept of the core-self is also very important in thinking about a paradigm of consciousness. In this regard I see the core-self having two components: first as karmic node and second as the identifying point for the ego as it develops and is associated with a body. This is an evolving hypothesis that helps me to function and to develop appropriate behaviors in interacting with the world. Currently in my hypothesis I consider the infant to come into the world with karma. For the karma to work its way in a three-dimensional world, it must be associated with a body. This is what I mean by a karmic node.

Along with the karma the infant body comes equipped with capacity of to desire. Desire comes in many forms from the breast to hunger, thirst, sex, etc. From the interplay of the karma and desire and the ways in which the body accommodates them, the ego develops as the body matures.

There seems to be a connection between the core-self that we have identified as a location in the head and the karmic node/ego core-self. I reached this tentative conclusion intellectually first and I’m now watching my meditation practice to check its validity. The idea is that when the karmic node is beyond desire the core-self location in the head disappears in ecstatic joy that is called satori or samadi or epiphany or some other term from another tradition. To say that it disappears is not quite right. The ecstatic light seems to be centered in the head but also not limited to the head. Usually, if I am able to reach this state, the core-self and the heart are joined in on continuous vibrating light. I’m not able to remain in this state for more than maybe ten minutes. Any observation from you, Michael, or from anybody else is very welcome.

Marcia Beloved 3 years ago

Please keep sharing!  This post is very clear and inspiring. 

Would you elaborate on what you mean regarding the positive energy from the soles of the feet and the negative energy originating from the core self location?

My instinctive reaction is that you must be very, very near to liberation.  The desire, hungering, and grasping that you associate with the karmic node must be nearly exhausted for you. Soon, I feel you will only be that ecstatic light you described, centered but not limited to the head.  You will only be vibrating, ecstatic, joyful light.  You will not take on physical bodies like the ones we are using now in our earthly existence.

This is exciting news.  It confirms to me that the spiritual journey is real.

neil 3 years ago

I like the KISS principle - Keep It Simple Stupid.  Too many labels make it too complicated.  I like the idea of the self and the Self which are talked about in the Upanishads. "There are two selves, the apparent self and the real Self."  The self is who we think we are and the Self is what we truly are. 

To realize I am not the self is liberating.  To dwell in the Self is glorious.

MiBeloved 3 years ago

Tobe,

These realizations and hypothesis based on meditation are tremendous. I feel you made leaps and bounds.

In any case, it would help greatly if you sorted between the core-self and the attention beam or attention interest which comes out from the core self and does psychic research into the adjuncts of the psyche.

How does that attention mix with the other parts of the psyche, what is that attention.

Regarding the energy which goes out from the core-self to the other parts of the psyche, what is that?

How does it go out?

What is its main pursuit?

Is it drawn out of the psyche?

Is it unwillingly or willingly pulled out of the core-self?

Jettins 3 years ago

Michael Wrote:

The self lives in a psyche and so when one goes internally, one is not going into the self but into the psyche in which the self is housed.

Jettins Comment:

The way I see it is the following. When ones goes within, one goes into the psyche, the ego being the impulse driver of the psyche, the psyche creating a mirage of sorts blocking us from experiencing elements of the Self. I associate the Self with higher self or expanded states of being.

Imagine a security guard at night searching a warehouse; the security guide is looking around with a flash light device. He can only see the things he flashes his light on to so he shines his way; he stumbles upon the things he can’t see with his flash light. The light itself is the ego awareness, the security guard the”I” shining light into the warehouse that is the psyche. The psyche becomes difficult to decipher since there is only partial light shining into it by the ego, this makes unable to perceive that there is something more outside the warehouse.  When a higher quality light illuminates it develops the psychic potential, (found by intention beyond the scope of the psyche) the link between the psyche and the Self, or the warehouse and what is outside of it. Doing this requires intimate knowledge of the working parts of the inner you. There is no way around it, you have to face yourself.

These states outside the warehouse are the higher states of being, boundless or unlimited states and can take astral forms and undefined forms. In these special states one experience’s elements or states of the Self, these are nonlinear states of being that are experienced as glimpses or insights because of its nature.

Imagine the ground or the dirt being the Self, the life bringer, and the seed of a plant being the psyche that will grow into a plant or a baby going into adulthood.  The plant will live its entire existence without realizing anything else, but itself.  I don't want to be like the plant.

Core-Self to me sounds good, or True Self sounds good too.

Boundless-Self sounds nice.

To confuse things further here is a bit of Existential philosophy, the subject in general is very interesting. I do not necessarily agree with all of it.

The Self is born, but the ego is made – Edgar Edinger

Personally I would change this up and say. “The psyche is born within the Self and the ego made” But then again I am not certain how he was using the terms.

“We are divided within; we are not a whole being within. We have the imperial self and then this thing called the ego, the ego being a construct of physical existence.” Michael Tsarion

“We can understand another human being only as we see what he is moving toward, what he is becoming; and we can know ourselves only as we “project our potential in action”. Edgar Edinger

The Existential Trinity – Existential Philosophy - The idea that we are 3 human beings at once.

Umwelt – (“The world around you. “biological World & Environment)

Mitwelt – (“The With-World. “Society or community)

Eigenwelt – (“The Own-World. “Relationship with Oneself  - inner being)

“Your body is an object of subjective thought, so the humans being mind and the act of perception nucleates the subject and object dichotomy. So weather any other teachers, any other gurus or any other techniques, even despite the fact that you may not even know this, you are in fact a transcended being that has nucleated opposites, when you know it, it helps.” - Michael Tsarion.

“In order to adjust to the Mitwelt, we don’t really do it as an imperial self, we do it as a pseudo self, so we have to dong a masquerade, we play an act a performance in order to adjust; there is the creation of the pseudo-self the actor. That pseudo self is a counterfeit self, and the ego or what we refer to as the ego, is basically the operating system, the engine behind it, that does meant you blame the ego, the ego is just instructed to do. Cursing or denouncing the ego is a sign of false teachers…” Michael Tsarion

I have been doing a bit more reading and updating http://www.astralvoid.com I am thinking about releasing youtube videos soon to generate more interest.  Most people get this kind of information via youtube. Better I adjust or my website and the content within could become unknown.

Have a great day!

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I will go ahead and try to answer these like if it was some kind of weirdo school test. From reading above it seems to me that I come from a different school of thought. To me dimensional existences are a sort of metaphors of being, so I will make my own metaphors, this requires I base my ever temporary conclusions from personal experience, and use others ideas and insights for analysis and never as dogma.

Michael Query: How does that attention mix with the other parts of the psyche, what is that attention.

Jettins’ Reply: Attention being the limited or concentrated focal point of ego awareness. Like from the example above shining light into the psyche or our psychological make-up

Michael Query: Regarding the energy which goes out from the core-self to the other parts of the psyche, what is that?

Jettins’ Reply: Or the energy which goes out from the Self to other parts of the psyche. I do not know what it is, but I could tell you the form I think it takes. While still attached to the human brain it would take the form of psychic insights and glimpses.

Michael Query: How does it go out?

Jettins’ Reply: from core-self to psyche or from psyche to core-self?  If from psyche to Self it is done with an intention that permeates through the psyche and into the Self (hmm, what is this process that I won’t say it here yet that could also break the re-incarnation cycle?). What I will eventually refer to as states of expansion in my years to come. Forms of meditation might not be the only way to do this in my opinion, I will get to the bottom of it and report.. buzzer XX hehe

If from Self to psyche it happens for existential reasons for being here, from higher or divine order. Transcended and transfigured parts of the Self outside space/time coming to visit  There are multiple expressions of this Self.

There is a permanent connection to it but usually obstructed, no solid psychic connection or not understood as the inner self (deep aspects of the psyche) is unknown. Unable to decipher states of being or what originates from within vs outside of the psyche during astral experiences.

You can call the Self the "the one" but with different expression such as in the Ten Sefirot of the Kabbalah. But I am going a little too fast with this right now. It's confusing to add more of this here.

Michael Query: What is its main pursuit?

Jettins’ Reply: Boundlessness, limitless or unconstricted states of being. Refer to my other posts to see what I mean on this.

Michael Query: Is it drawn out of the psyche?

Jettins’ Reply: Not drawn, but evolved out of the psyche.

Michael Query: Is it unwillingly or willingly pulled out of the core-self?

Jettins’ Reply: Buzzer XX

Have a great day!