Who is the source of the Yoga system, is it Lord Shiva or Lord Krishna
Meditationtime Forum Post
Date: Posted 5 years before Dec 09, 2017
dasezuceqa 5 years ago
I hear different stories of Lord Shiva being the Lord of Yoga as well as Lord Krishna, who is the highest Lord of Yoga?
Did Yoga begin from the Earth planet and then was expanded throughout the subtle and gross cosmos. Or was it brought down from Lord Brahma's world and then distributed to the other planetary systems through the various yoga lineages?
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Michael, in your book Yoga Objectives on page 119, paragraph 4 you said that semen is generated in the gross body an electric charge is built up in it.
What causes this semen to be generated?
How much blood is needed to create one drop of semen?
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Michael on page 119 of your Yoga Objectives book, you said that an electric charge is stored in the genital area and interpreted as romantic feelings and sexual pleasure. So can I safely conclude the other feelings besides the sexual and romantic must also fall into the category of some kind of electric energy being misinterpreted to be something else, like the feeling of hate, anger, lust, envy, greed, jealousy etc, etc. etc.
If the semen is generated in the gross body, then what organs, or biochemical substances generate or combine to create the semen?
I heard of this idea of semen being light or semen being heavy, the light type is supposedly easier to raise up to the brain & this heavier having the contrary effect. Once again what makes the harnessing of the light more conducive to celibacy practice in the yoga proc.
MiBeloved 5 years ago
dasezuceqa's query:
I hear different stories of Lord Shiva being the Lord of Yoga as well as Lord Krishna, who is the highest Lord of Yoga?
MiBeloved's Response:
Both Lord Shiva and Lord Krishna are regarded as the Lord of yoga. However in terms of a concurrent practice, it is Lord Shiva who is the example. Lord Krishna is not concerned with setting an ongoing example for the limited entities. That is done by Lord Shiva.
If you want techniques for kriya yoga you will have to go to Lord Shiva. Lord Krishna has better things to occupy His time. He is not concerned with a system for spiritual upgrade.
Being the master of Yoga or the Lord of Yoga does not mean that that person will help you. It does not matter who is the master of yoga, your concern is with the person who will help you to advance with yoga. If Krishna is the master, then the question is this: Will he give you direct assistance and show you what you need to do from the level which you are on?
If the answer is that he will not show you then his mastership is really irrelevant, at least for you. Hence the real issue here is who will teach you. Suppose you go to Shiva and he turns you down as a student, then even his mastery has no use for you. You will have to find someone somewhere who can help you.
It is for this reason that Lahiri Mahasaya Kriya guruji use to say that Babaji was Krishna.
Babaji is not Krishna. Krishna is a different person. But in so far as learning kriya practice, Babaji was for Lahiri, the teaching master of the practice, the representative of Krishna.
Ultimately any valid kriya practice is coming from Shiva or from Krishna alternately but that does not mean that you can get it directly from either of them. It is hardly likely that these Gods are going to instruct you directly.
There is no need for it. They do not have time to deal with pee wee entities. And in fact it is not necessary because there are so many masters who are way ahead of you and who can give you the instruction that you need and they can do that as a service rendered to Shiva and Krishna.
Once when I saw Lord Balarama, he was sitting in an astral forest. It was way back in the 1980's. I was at the time trying to figure out some kriyas because my yoga practice got stuck because I spent time with the Hare Krishnas and with them I could not do any yoga for years due to their guruji's abolition of yoga in their sect.
So I was happy to see the Lord and then I wanted to ask him to give me some help with my practice to get it going again. Before I could say anything, he waved his hand as to dismiss me saying, "See Mahadeva. I don't have any time with that."
Right then, I disappeared from that dimension and found myself back in my material body. So yes, these persons are Lord of yoga for sure but that does not mean they will teach you directly.
Later when I saw Lord Shiva, he ignored me. But then I got some astral gurujis like Srila Yogeshwarananda who helped me. Lord Shiva treated me like that because I failed to follow an instruction of his in a previous life. If one disobeys the God, then it comes back in the form of neglect at a later date. That is to be expected.
Sometimes even great siddhas are not able to get instructions directly from the God. There is the case of Matsyendranath. He was lucky to hear what Lord Shiva was explaining to Devi the Goddess at a time when there was no one else around anywhere. Devi was being taught yoga kriyas by Lord Shiva and she wasn't paying attention to every last detail. Women, even the Goddess, do not usually take their spouses seriously.
At the time guruji Matsyendra was in a fish body (matsya) and he happen to be in the water near where Lord Shiva was explaining, so he sneaked up and listened. Later in other lives, that information remained in his psyche and he put it into practice.
But that does not mean that Lord Shiva would have taught Mastyendra the information if Matsyendra was a human being. It just happened that Matsyendra was lucky.
Again we see that in the Anu Gita when Arjuna was really seriously interested in hearing the Bhagavad Gita, Krishna told him to screw off.
Krishna explained Gita for Krishna's convenience because Krishna needed to use an agent to punish the Kurus but when later Arjuna wanted to hear it for his own sake, Krishna said no and told Arjuna another story with strict emphasis on personal actions and reactions as a warning to Arjuna.
God is the master of yoga, for sure, that is God as Shiva or Krishna but that is for their convenience, not for ours.
Put that in your pipe and take a good smoke of it, so that it soaks into your brain.
Even the siddhas who are not God are hard to come by. I searched the astral regions for over 35 years to get in touch with Rishi Singh Gherwal who was the guru of my first yoga teacher, Arthur Beverford.
Rishi wrote some books which are now out of print but when I went through them around 1973, I could not find one single kriya technique. These books were written in such a way that you could not get anything out of it. So after some 35 years, he got in touch with me suddenly. Even though he knew that I spent so much time looking all over for him spending many nights in the astral dimension hoping to find him, still he never said anything about it, and I did not dare to bring up the issue.
So why did he come to me? Was it to help me?
Of course not. It was because he wanted to order me around to write a few more books even though I had said that I was done with Sanskrit. Due to his instruction the books about the Anu Gita and the Markandeya Samasya were published. These are a total of four books. The point is that these people are not there for our convenience.
Even though for years I needed some kriya information and especially some pranayama information, he never once transmitted the information into my mind but for his own purposes, he transmitted the translation and knowledge for those books, so much so that in a few Sanskrit verses, he gave me meanings for Sanskrit words which no other translator thus far could accurately figure out. That means that he could have assisted me previously when I was looking for him but he did not. I am stating this to explain the actual situation with these siddhas. I hope you get the point.
There were about four verses which were mistranslated for centuries from the Sanskrit to English. I raked my brains, scraped through several Sanskrit dictionaries, asked a Sanskrit speaking person and still could not figure the meanings but I knew that the old translations of these verses were flawed. And then in the middle of the night, Rishi would sit down in the astral, take a piece of chalk and break down the work to its Sanskrit roots and gave the meanings.
That is how those four books were produced.
Now do not misunderstand because I am not saying this to vent resentment but only to explain the facts about the relationship with these people. These are not New Age gurus. These are mahayogins.
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The two books which I did on his behalf are:
Anu Gita English (no Sanskrit)
Markandeya Samasya English (no Sanskrit)
This listing of four books is actually two books which are parts of the Mahabharata.
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dasezuceqa's query:
Did Yoga begin from the Earth planet and then was expanded throughout the subtle and gross cosmos. Or was it brought down from Lord Brahma's world and then distributed to the other planetary systems through the various yoga lineages?
MiBeloved's Response:
According to the Puranas, Lord Shiva was the first person in the material creation to do yoga meditation, which was what Patanjali called Samyama. The first elementary stages were not practiced because from the get-go Lord Shiva was Lord of yoga from the very beginning of his being in the material creation.
There is a story in the Puranas however about a woman being the first yogi during a specific time cycle and that person became known as Arundhati or Sarasvati the Goddess.
In the story, Brahma, the planetary-god wanted to get the creation going and produced from his thinking, a woman. Before this he produced what is known as his mind born sons who are all mahayogis from their previous lives in previous creations. These persons had the intuition of yoga intact in their consciousness.
So when that woman was produced after these mind born sons, it is said that Brahma felt an urge to have sexual intercourse with the woman. The woman however recognized Brahma as her father and objected to having a spouse relationship with him.
So then she wanted to do austerities. Nobody had told her about it and her brothers from before, the nine mind born sons knew what to do by their intuitive knowledge from past lives but she did not really know the process.
She knew however that to get Brahma off her back she had to do some penance. So she went off into isolation and began to meditate just like that.
After a long time, some thousands of years, she was still in mediation but she was not making progress with it because she did not have the right kriyas and could not discover them. Then Brahma felt bad about the whole incidence with her and he sent Vashisth, one of his mind born sons from before, to help her. He told Vashistha,
“This lady rejected me but she will accept you first as a yoga teacher and then gradually you would become her husband. Since you came into existence way before her and since you are from another type of my energy, you are technically not her brother. You can be her guru and husband.”
Getting this instruction Vashistha went to the ascetic woman, made acquaintance with her and gave her the kriyas which she needed. Later they became man and wife.
So in that creative phase the person who began doing preliminary meditation was a female.
However in the background of all this, there is always Lord Shiva sitting in samadhi. That you can be sure of but that does not mean that anybody can reach him to learn anything.
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If you go through the Upanishad and the Vedas you will get some information about how the yoga is brought to planet earth. There is also the story of Yama and Nachiketa but Yama was once on earth and then because he was the first of the Rishis to master astral projection, he was given a position as the master of deceased souls or Yamaraja. So he was the first person in our local time scale to actually master yoga to the extent of figuring out what happens when the physical body dies.
It does not matter if God is in heaven meditating or whatever the guy might be doing. We have to find out about the way of deliverance from somebody who takes a material body and who knows how to get out or who has the intuition of how to get out.
Initially the mind-born sons of Brahma took bodies on earth without getting the bodies from a human woman. So how was that done?
It was done by magic, the same magic of how we take a body from a woman nowadays, except that at the time of the Rishis this was done because the elements on the earth were as submissive to body formation as the elements in the mother’s body currently are.
So when those rishis first took bodies, they got stuck down here and had to figure out how to consciously astral project and that is what Yama did. So because he was the first one to do that, he got the position as master of the deceased entities.
Later all those books were written like the Vedas and the Upanishads and then gradually over time the system of yoga got put down by Patanjali in the Yoga Sutras.
At first many of the rishis were perplexed because when you are in the higher astral regions, that is one type of consciousness and when you then become entombed so to speak in a material body, that is a real downgrade like going from Window 7 on a computer to using a typewriter. Some features of Windows 7 are just not there in a typewriter, so you become stuck and have to figure out how to get yourself up to the higher technology.
In the process of figuring this out, yoga was discovered and defined and then eventually the Christopher Columbus of yoga took birth as Patanjali.
Krishna or Shiva could have penned the Yoga Sutras just as well but they did not care to do it.
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dasezuceqa's query:
Michael, in your book Yoga Objectives on page 119, paragraph 4 you said that semen is generated in the gross body an electric charge is built up in it.
What causes this semen to be generated?
How much blood is needed to create one drop of semen?
MiBeloved's Response:
Semen is generated by a biological process which is set up by the kundalini for the generation of more bodies so that the kundalini can transmigrate when the current body is finished.
The body is designed with this intention by nature. It is a nature process. There is no cause or reason for it beside the survival attitude of material nature.
For the quantity of blood required, I do not know the specs on that. Perhaps medical books might have figures on that. Yogi Bhajan once said it take at least 80 drops of blood to make one drop of semen.
The point is that the blood is strained in the testes and concentrated there to make semen and the same kind of concentration process occurs in the ovary system of the females.
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dasezuceqa's query:
Michael on page 119 of your Yoga Objectives book, you said that an electric charge is stored in the genital area and interpreted as romantic feelings and sexual pleasure. So can I safely conclude the other feelings besides the sexual and romantic must also fall into the category of some kind of electric energy being misinterpreted to be something else, like the feeling of hate, anger, lust, envy, greed, jealousy etc, etc. etc.
MiBeloved's Response:
Sure you can make that assumption but do not get carried away with it, unless you have accurately on the psychic plane made your analysis, and don’t quote me on this either. Intuition has to be used, no one can live without it but it does make mistakes due to misperception and thwart-influences.
Always double check everything before you tell people about it because otherwise you will mislead people 80% of the time.
I can say anything I like because I have a license to do that but you should not do that. Always check and double check your intuition and always know that it can mislead you. You have to use it but still it can mislead you.
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Continued from above…
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dasezuceqa's query:
If the semen is generated in the gross body, then what organs, or biochemical substances generate or combine to create the semen?
MiBeloved's Response:
Obviously your best bet to get information on this is from the current medical science. You can post what you learn about it when you do the research. It is so easy to do this now using the Internet.
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dasezuceqa's query:
I heard of this idea of semen being light or semen being heavy, the light type is supposedly easier to raise up to the brain & this heavier having the contrary effect.
MiBeloved's Response:
This depends on the cause of the light or heavy semen. If semen has become heavy because it is more concentrated because it remained in the seminal tubes for a long time, then it will usually carry a stronger more compulsive lusty charge. In the West they say that a man is horny or that he is acting like a sex-crazed billy-goat which fights with other male goats over sexual access to nanny goats.
Heavy semen which is there because the genetic attitude of the testes produces that, is not a problem if that was not concentrated due to it lingering in the seminal tubes.
The lighter or heavier type has little to do with the power of raising it into the brain. Actually the whole idea of kundalini yoga is the subtle body not the physical one. So if you want to speak about that please restrict the conversation to what happens in the subtle body. Thanks!
The important thing to strive for is the continuous even absorption of semen in the body, so that it does not build up in the groin region and then make you into a billy-goat. If the sexual energy is discharged through the system as fast as it is produced, it will not build up a lusty charge and one will not be bothered with sex urge compulsion.
In males the problem is this build up and lack of distribution of the energy as soon as it is formed, resulting into a compulsive sexual habit.
In females we see that the energy builds up over a one-month cycle and then much of that energy is discharged during the menstrual time. So then the system resets itself and builds up again. Perhaps this is a better system of nature than the one in males because we have no way to discharge the build-up except by emission in intercourse or self-stimulation. So if you can change your body so that the energy is discharged continuously you can beat nature’s system.
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dasezuceqa's query:
Once again what makes the harnessing of the light more conducive to celibacy practice in the yoga process
MiBeloved's Response:
Please rephrase this question.
dasezuceqa 5 years ago
Michael, when you called Brahma the planetary-god, do you mean the planetary-god of this Earth planet, or the planetary-god of the whole creation, both subtle and gross. Possibly in that scenario the creation as a whole being a planet and Brahma- being the leader of the planet?
I don't understand why you said planetary instead of creator-god.
I thought that the difference in the kind of food that one eats affects the nature of the semen production relative to it being heavy or light, light being foods in the mode of goodness or sattva, and heavy being in the modes of passion and ignorance, or rajasic and tamasic.
Is not the mode of goodness more supportive of yoga in its beginning stages then that of rajas or tamas? I thought that is why a certain diet is recommended for its practice.
MiBeloved 5 years ago
It does not matter, Chris if it is planetary meaning physical or meaning subtle. What difference does that make to you and especially for you?
Explain that!
You get some mental satisfaction from knowing, but it makes no difference to your situation, condition and method of development.
Planetary means that he is focused on producing environments where species can develop in communities and where the environments are physical which provide a relief from subtle existence which for the most part is found to be flimsy and shifty.
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dasezuceqa's query:
I thought that the difference in the kind of food that one eats affects the nature of the semen production relative to it being heavy or light, light being foods in the mode of goodness or sattva, and heavy being in the modes of passion and ignorance, or rajasic and tamasic.
Is not the mode of goodness more supportive of yoga in its beginning stages then that of rajas or tamas? I thought that is why a certain diet is recommended for its practice.
MiBeloved's Response:
This is why you should not ask questions which are loaded or motivated. You should not try to use an authority to support your ideas because then you have to be dishonest where you do not state up front that your conclusion is such and such and you want to use the authority to substantiate it. This is high level dishonesty and a yogi has no need for that.
So the real question here is: Why are you dishonest like this anyway?
Forget the celibacy question and deal with that, and you will make heaps of progress.
It is totally wrong to use an authority as a stooge in this way. It is also harmful to people who witness it because they become confused and lost in the discussion.
This discussion uses celibacy as its legitimate focus but actually the real focus is to face that you set out to prove something and then because people do not accept your thesis, you then drag an established authority into it and use the authority to establish your credential. So the real question here is,
Why do you have to do that? What is under that? It is certainly not celibacy.
This is called a klesa in Sanskrit which means a state of psychological pain, an affliction. Patanjali wants us, the student yogis, to get rid of these inset inborn fuck-ups, to put it bluntly.
Now if you want to ask about celibacy in fact, then first state why you are asking it and then state what your views are and then ask me if I can support your views or not. This is the proper way for a student yogi to inquire of this.
unlimitedsun 5 years ago
Celibacy! I am very motivated by this crucial aspect of the practice. Yes, it has been explained that by dint of practice progress comes, and that is accepted. Association also provides the practitioner with much assistance as many of us on the path get here the opportunity to share and learn from one another.
Once a source of bewilderment from the pure joy of newly discovered pleasure, sex pleasure along with its arduous sensations after years of senseless exploitation eventually appears overrated. As much as it might have been mesmerizing, sex propensity can equally become a source of despondency.
It would be good to adopt an attitude of openness in the vein of exchange and learning from one another as we brainstorm among individuals who may no longer be faced with the impetus of procreation, and who are not deemed exceptionally favored in the undertaking of celibacy.
Since from the depth of ignorance one unleashed the Pandora's box in bygone years; now how to retract, and close shut the walls of this most natural floodgate?
Even when desire is not to motivate the individual as much, again and again a regular man finds that will power alone represents no match in arm wrestling with Mother Nature.
So, what are some aspects that we need to consider or rather remind ourselves when approaching this daunting endeavor?
How can we best understand sexual energy and its expressions? How can one get a prognostic?
Alfredo 5 years ago
In my case, it is obvious by now that I can maintain celibacy at the physical level, but can't at the subtle one. Recent dreams, one of a full sexual encounter with an old flame just days ago, confirm this point to me.
Thus, heeding the advice of the Acharya, I strive patiently and daily working with the Bhastrika pranayama and especially with the thighs. The meditation that follows is also crucial in the understanding of the workings, comings and goings, of Kundalini. We, common folks, are usually no match to this force, much yoga practice is needed.
Have I noticed any progress, any positive changes? Definitely yes. Primarily knowledge is power, and the understanding of the challenges at hand is the beginning of wisdom.
I have been on the urdhvaretas path for a while (sublimating the sexual energy ojas up sushumna instead of through the sexual act), stumbling, falling, getting up again. Alas, it was through a post in LinkedIn precisely on this issue that I met Acharya Beloved who intervened as I was being pummeled by others.
