What is the mind?
Meditationtime Forum Post
Date: Posted 3 years before Apr 08, 2016
MiBeloved 3 years ago
An explanation which I posted in linkedin:
Trunk in that usage is the trunk of the subtle body. Let me clarify that usually when we use the term mind (manas) it is used in a confused ill-defined way and usually when I say mind, people assume that I mean what they mean and visa versa.
Actually though, the use of the term mind (manas) in the Sanskrit literature has to be explained in terms of the context of usage, because in some reading the writer means the intellect, in other he means the mental space or mental compartment where psychological actions take place, in some other usage mind mean what the Western terminology has assigned as subconscious mind or it may even mean what people like Paramhansa Yogananda has called super-consciousness.
In my usage, I use the word mind to mean the space in the head of the subtle body. In that usage mind is merely a compartment or open space within which psychological activities takes place and this is individual limited mind. It is not anything to do with absolute or mergence or oneness.
So why make a big fuss about what the mind is and about what happens in other areas of the subtle body?
Well it is like this. When I first began to do meditation it was all about the head space or mind space. Later when I got on to kundalini yoga my attention was drawn to the other major space in the subtle body which is the trunk or torso of that form.
Just as in the physical system, the brain is the most important part in terms of consciousness and yet, in the trunk of the body we have the lungs, the heart and other vital organs, so in the trunk of the subtle body we have psychic organs which have importance in advanced yoga practice.
Kundalini has its default location in the torso, in the lower end of it at muladhara chakra. But the buddhi has its default location in the head of the subtle body. Mostly people who meditate do so in the head of the subtle body and some do in the chest/heart area of the subtle body.
To explain what I am doing, and not to cause confusion, I listed what happened in the torso of the subtle body.
Kundalini does move through the torso, usually through the sushumna central passage into the neck and then into the head but its default location is at the base of the trunk of the subtle body.
This is not in the mind space or head space of the subtle body. This is why I differentiate this.
Alfredo 3 years ago
Michael!
Glad you are back on land! Hope you enjoy your trip or that is at least productive.
Does Chitta Vritti Nirodha applies to the head of the subtle body? Many people believe this to be an injunction to control the mind of the fleshy physical organ. Or could it even extend to the torso of the subtle body?
MiBeloved 3 years ago
Alfredo Query: Does Chitta Vritti Nirodhah applies to the head of the subtle body?
MiBeloved’s Response:
Chitta Vritti Nirodhah applies to the head and trunk of the subtle body but the traditional interpretation is that it applies to the mind which is the head of the subtle body.
Because of a simplistic approach to understanding the sutras, and because of an under estimation of the depth of Patanjali, many translators and commentators have portrayed cittavritti nirodhah, as being the concern of the mind only.
That is totally wrong unless it is explained that it means the mind and the effects of the other parts of the psyche on the mind.
For instance there is kundalini which causes vrittis in the head but it does so indirectly from its position in the trunk of the subtle body. There is the long-term memory storage in the chest of the subtle body which sends up impressions into the head of the subtle body, which then burst out or are expanded and illustrated by the buddhi intellect organ in the head.
So this means that for a comprehensive cittavritti nirodhah one has to deal with the trunk of the subtle body.
People who are only concerned with the subtle head space, the mind, cannot be completely successful in yoga, because they omit dealing with two formidable foes which are the kundalini life force at muladhara and the long-term memory or subconscious which is below the neck, in the chest of the subtle body. If these two adjuncts are not dealt with directly, the person cannot become liberated in real terms.
Alfredo 3 years ago
Thanks!
Thus I guess the Inself yoga you entertain pertains to this part in the trunk of the subtle body? Now, how this long-term memory in the subconscious of the individual located in the trunk of the subtle body relates to the collective unconscious, where personality is lost, from where archetypes emerge?
MiBeloved 3 years ago
inSelf Yoga means the entire psyche, the head and torso as well as limbs of the subtle body.
It is distinguished from raj yoga and also from some definitions of kriya yoga which only concerns the head (mind space of the head).
The collective unconscious is a very vague term(s) which indicates whatever is so subjective that there is not even one iota of objectivity in it. But that is more than one state which collectively is termed like that for want of a better word.
It is like saying water wets fabric.
that leaves everything open, and nothing specifically defined, such as rain water or tap water or ocean water or ........
archetypes? what do you mean by that?
Alfredo 3 years ago
Michael wrote: [archetypes? what do you mean by that?]
Alfredo’s Reply:
I think they were defined by Jung, and have become popular as the "originals" of everything.
For example, our causal body could be said to be our archetype.
MiBeloved 3 years ago
In that case archetypes come from the causal body but the causal body is not on the same plane as the subtle body.
A tree produces a fruit within which is a seed which in turn can produce a similar tree but this is happening on the same plane of existence for the most part.
With the causal body even though it produces the subtle body, it is not on the same plane. Therefore if you are on the subtle plane, the causal body is invisible or is nothingness.
People talk about void but in most cases what they really are saying is that they could not reach the plane from which something originated and if you cannot reach it then it is void to your sensual apparatus.
The important distinction of the causal body when compared to the memories or even to the unconscious is that the causal body cannot be interfered with and it does not take in impressions from the subtle plane. It is a one way thing where it emits but does not accept impressions.
It is not influenced by anything we do but we are influenced by what it emits. It produces the subtle planes of existence but it is not produced by or influenced by the subtle plane. Between here and there, there is a check valve system which only allows one way communication from the causal level to this one.
Marcia Beloved 3 years ago
Michael wrote:
....the causal body cannot be interfered with and it does not take in impressions from the subtle plane. It is a one way thing where it emits but does not accept impressions.
This statement causes me to inquire, what, exactly, is emitted by the causal body? Does one's individuality originate in the causal body?
MiBeloved 3 years ago
Individuality does not originate from the causal level. Individuality comes either from the brahman spiritual plane or from the spiritual environments where divine people are living.
Subtle impressions which are the seeds of everything which happens in the subtle and gross material worlds are emitted from the causal plane.
Alfredo 3 years ago
Michael:
I am confused.
Doesn't the fact that each entity has a physical and subtle body which seeds are rooted in the causal one implies an individual causal body for everyone?
In other words, the entity that is me...doesn't that entity has one and only causal body, and if yes, doesn't that constitute an individuality?
And if not...why that comes from the Brahman spiritual plane?
MiBeloved 3 years ago
Questions about the causal plane:
Alfredo Query: Doesn't the fact that each entity has a physical and subtle body which seeds are rooted in the causal one implies an individual causal body for everyone?
MiBeloved’s Response:
This is correct that each individual has an individual causal body but there is also a causal reservoir which is the place from which these individual unit causal systems was originally issued.
The government has many blank certificates for birth records, and issues stamped filled-out versions of these as per the birth of individual children. These children travel with their individual certificates, while the government keeps blanks and also monitors the records of the issued papers.
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Alfredo Query: In other words, the entity that is me...doesn't that entity has one and only causal body, and if yes, doesn't that constitute an individuality?
MiBeloved’s Response:
Yes each child has his own certificate but so what? The certificate is not the individual child itself but it is still local only to that child. The child came from the body of a specific woman not from the birth registry. Individuality of the child is neither the registry nor the paper which was issued from the registry and still for official purposes; we use the paper to identity the child.
How else can the child be identified in society except by a birth record. A limited spirit is neither its causal body nor its subtle or physical forms and yet, it is identified as that for all practical purposes. Suppose the police came to arrest me. I whip out my driver’s license or birth certificate and then I say to the police.
“Do not arrest me just arrest this piece of paper which is the record.”
That will not be considered by the police because they understand that the paper is just a function to assist in identifying me.
In other words the causal body of the individual is in fact local to the individual but all the same it is not the individual in fact.
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Alfredo Query: And if not...why that comes from the Brahman spiritual plane?
MiBeloved’s Response:
Brahman plane of existence is higher than the causal level of existence. Those spirits who are there and who need to be manifested are lowered into the material world where they acquire a causal body, a subtle body and the adjuncts within the subtle body and then they sometimes take a physical system too.
According to Krishna they are drawn into the alliance with the causal and subtle systems and then they become this or that in the material world according to the specific species their psyche is attracted to:
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