The Core-Self
Meditationtime Forum Post
Date: Posted 3 years before Oct 05, 2016
chris_hall1951 3 years ago
Can anyone tell me, what is the relationship between the core-self and the causal body?
In other words, where does the causal body fit in relative to the position of the subtle senses, the mind field or compartment, the analytical orb, the sense of identity and the self proper?
Where does the causal form come in, is it the original inclination of the core-self interests or compulsion to associate with gross and subtle matter? Is it above the highest astral dimension, or is it one of the conduits from the core self to the sense of identity"
When did it first come into manifestation relative to the Vishnu tattva as well as the jiuva tattva?
Does it exist in the transcendence with Krishna and His associates?
I really need help with understanding where was the causal form generated from, and its relationship to the core-self and the psychic organs and adjunct's.
Can someone please enlighten me as to the truth of the causal body and its relationship to the core self?
devaPriya Yogini 3 years ago
Thanks Chris for asking this question...it's exactly what Margie and I were talking about the other night.
Alfredo 3 years ago
In Hinduism there is something called the Atma or Atman, one of the pillars of Sanatana Dharma.
Instead of using the Sanskrit word Atman, which has deteriorated somehow because of its common use, spiritual teachers are often fond of finding a similar defining expression, if to be set apart or understood separately, thus, for example, in many translations from Sanskrit, as in the case of Ramana Maharshi's words, this Atman is called the Self. Thus, Paul Brunton, wanting another differentiation, called it the Overself.
Hereby Acharya Beloved has called the Atman the Core-Self.
What is the Core-Self?
The core-self, dear Chris, is your eternal non-diminishing personality.
Chris, when you die, your core-self is never reduced. It is your core, but you cannot control it, finally. Cannot be killed, wetted, burned, it is verily the greatest of pests, the greatest reality.
What is the relationship of the core-self to the Jiva Tattva? Well, it depends on how you look at it. In Adwaita Vedanta Monism, the Jivatma (Jiva Tattva) has no reality, as Brahman is indivisible.
For others this Jivatma is verily the core-self. The core-self is that which is not born, and does not evolve, but presides over the individual manifestation. It is different from the Cayta Purusha, that evolves. The Cayta Purusha is the projection here of the core-self.
The core-self is either transcendent or universal, as Atma or Paramatma.
The core-self as the Atman, is a spark of Mahavishnu as the Paramatma.
Vishnu is one head of Mahavishnu. There are those who believe that Vishnu is preeminent over Brahma and Shiva, responsible for this creation.
What is the relationship of the causal body or form to the core-self? Existential could be one way of explaining it.
The causal body is as foreign to the spirit as the astral and physical forms. Alas, it is the causal form that creates the greatest trouble for liberation!
Why? Because it is so difficult to realize in itself.
The causal body is the "power of the idea". The power comes from the substance of the core-self: being, consciousness, force.
To jump to Moksha (liberation), the greatest hurdle becomes not being the causal form.
chris_hall1951 3 years ago
In Michael’s concept of the core-self, he never states that it is equated with the Paramatma-nor is such a concept substantiated in the bhagavad Gita or the Yoga Sutra.
Are you saying that the core- self is a spark of the Mahavishnu, if so where is the scriptural evidence either in Michael writing's or other writing's where this is substantiated that the core-self, is a spark of the Maahavishnu, or are you saying that the Paramatma is a spark of the Mahavishnu?
Are you saying that the core self, could refer to the atma or limited soul and also to the Paramatma the Supreme Soul?
From Michael's writing's, I always understood the core self as only referring to the self that was enmeshed in the material nature and not referring to the Supreme Self the Paramatma, who to my understanding was the localized expansion from one of the Vishnu forms, either the Garbhodakasayi Vishnu or the Mahavishnu.
The idea of the core-self being equal to the Paramatma is news to me, maybe in other writings such a concept may exist, but certainly not in the writing's of His Divine Grace Yogi Madhvacaryaji.
Still, you did not tell me how was the causal form generated from the unmanifested state of existence to its state of being connected with the core self and the rest of the psychic organs.
MiBeloved 3 years ago
chris_hall1951’s query:
Can anyone tell me, what is the relationship between the core-self and the causal body?
In other words, where does the causal body fit in relative to the position of the subtle senses, the mind field or compartment, the analytical orb, the sense of identity and the self proper?
MiBeloved's Response:
Causal body has nothing to do with the psychic adjuncts like the subtle senses, the analytical orb but it does have something to do with the sense of identity. In the causal body, the living entity has a faint sense of identity only and nothing else. With only a faint sense of identity, the entity can do nothing mental, emotional or physical.
It is like an indication of something and the actual something. Let us take for example that in the morning you arise and find that there is just a slight glow on the eastern horizon. Then you do not notice anything unusual. You go back into your house. Then you come out at 11am and you see there is still the same glow.
This is an indication of the sun. It is an indication but it is not the sun. So in the causal body, the living entity has an indication or a slight sense of the sense of identity and that is all. It never develops into anything definite in the causal body, just as if that glow in the east never increased and was the same at 11am. In the causal body you cannot realize anything about the adjuncts but you can feel a slight indication of the sense of identity. It is a location where all the origin-energy of everything in the material creation has emerged.
To understand this try to sit and meditate and go slowly back in your memory to your childhood. Once you get to say about 9 years of age, then you will find that everything is diminishing exponentially, as if there is less and less to be aware of, as if you are entering a zone of nothingness.
So do this for about a week taking half hour per day to do this. On some occasions you may not even get too far back but in some of the meditations you will.
Then after a week when you do this again try to go back pass 9 years of age, even into the existential memory which is a blank, a nothing. Now that state is similar to being in the causal body, in that your adjuncts for reasoning, visualizing and emotionalizing seem to be absent, as if these never existed. So the causal body is similar to that.
The subtle senses, the mind field or compartment, the analytical orb, the sense of identity with application and definition, come about when the core-self has left the causal body. These form what we call the subtle body. From the list above is missing the kundalini psychic life force and the memory (subconscious repository).
These combined form what is called a subtle body. As the subtle body is abstract to the physical body, so the causal body is abstract to the subtle body.
Staying in the causal body may be compared to staying for some months down in a deep mine in the earth. Miners are sometimes required to stay down in the earth for several days. At the time they have no access to fresh air unless it is pumped in. They have no access to sunlight.
However when the assigned period is over they come up to the surface of the earth, receive their pay and then they go out and spend the money. The money cannot be enjoyed deep in the earth. In the causal body we cannot fulfill any desires. There is no facility for expression or retraction. But the subtle body is the facility for expression and retraction.
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chris_hall1951’s query:
Where does the causal form come in, is it the original inclination of the core-self interests or compulsion to associate with gross and subtle matter? Is it above the highest astral dimension, or is it one of the conduits from the core self to the sense of identity"
MiBeloved's Response:
The causal body is in the first level of the potent material nature energy which is the nearest to the spiritual plane of existence. Because it is very close to the spiritual plane, on the border of it, it carries a potent charge of energy, such that a minute portion of it can burst out a material universe. On the causal plane we can develop neither a desire for this or a desire for that but our presence there causes some of the causal energy to cling to us, the way iron filings cling to a clump of iron which is dropped into a pan of fillings.
The magnet carries an attraction force but it is a limited force. Therefore if you lift the magnet out of the pan of fillings, it will only have a certain number of filling clinging to it. Bigger magnets will have more fillings clinging to them in comparison.
When a yogi goes into the causal plane, what happens is that he or she finds that the adjuncts are no more, like they disappear? Actually they do not disappear, what happens is that they remain on the level of their particular astral frequencies and remain there until the yogi returns to those levels, where he finds that they attach themselves to him automatically.
Horses at a paddock have the experience that when the horseman puts them in the field their bridles are magically removed. But when the horsemen takes them out of the field just before he does that they experience that their bridles are attached to their faces again. A similar thing happens to those yogis who go into and come out of the causal body.
The causal plane is a completely independent plane of existence which is where the material energy in its most subtle form, is first divested into a potent living force with life potential , except that the life in it is suppressed, the way the life of plant is suppressed in the seed which is to be the plant. Just as a seed sitting in a jar which has no water or soil cannot sprout but remains with life potency in it, so the causal plane exists. In the case of the seed though, if it make contact with water and soil, then its potential is actuated and in the process the seed itself is obliterated. But the causal level remains as is even though its essence becomes manifestation on the astral planes. That would be like if we have an apple seed which produced a tree but which retained its seed form even after that tree was produced. For us that would be miraculous but that is how the causal plane operates in terms of its influence upon the astral planes.
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chris_hall1951’s query:
When did it first come into manifestation relative to the Vishnu tattva as well as the jiva tattva?
Does it exist in the transcendence with Krishna and His associates?
MiBeloved's Response:
Explain the terms Vishnu tattva and jiva tattva.
I can say this much, that the material nature is absolute or is also brahman just as everything else but it is a mutable, ever changing brahman on its manifested levels.
It is called asat because it is subjected to radical alteration. Asat does not mean that it does not exist. It means that the integrity of its existence is called to question because its manifested states are instable.
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chris_hall1951’s query:
I really need help with understanding where was the causal form generated from, and its relationship to the core self and the psychic organs and adjunct's.
MiBeloved's Response:
There is really no relationship between the causal plane and the core-self but when the core-self is moved or moves in the direction of the material energy, it has to pass through the causal plane on its way to the subtle and gross material planes of consciousness.
As it passes through the causal plane, it picks up some of that energy which moves with it as it goes elsewhere in the material energy. It cannot shed off or get rid of this energy unless it passes back upward to the spiritual existence, where that bit of the causal level is deposited back into the causal plane.
If one is hired to enter a nuclear reactor core building, one is provided with a special suit which protects the body from radiation. The suit actually becomes contaminated, such that when one leaves the building, the suit is confiscated and held suspect as being a threat to human bodies.
So when a core-self ends up in the material world, by hook or by crook, it picks up contamination from the causal level, and when that soul is transited back into the spiritual plane, the contamination remains behind on the causal plane.
This diagram below may be helpful.
Alfredo 3 years ago
Chris:
In the Acharya's books, the core-self = atma or atman. I am surely not inventing this.
Before I thought he was referring to the Psychic Being of Sri Aurobindo, but in an interchange with Surya Ji a few months ago, he illuminated me. This Psychic Being is what is called in principle in Vedic literature the Cayta Purusha, or the evolving principle, white the atma or core-self is imperturbable in this manifestation, that's it "enters" and "leaves behind" the causal principle without being perturbed. It is, though, influenced, pushed around, confused, used, but its divine essence remains unscathed.
To support this, let me go to "Uddhava Gita Explained", where in verse 14.25 where it says in Sanskrit "yadatmany" = yada - when + aatmani, and Acharya's translation? In the core self.
And what is this Atman, but a spark of the transcendent Paramatma?
Paramatma = Brahman = Purushottama = Parambrahma.
In the Rig Veda hymn of the "Purusha Sukta", this Purusha is explained as comprising all this and then some, but not spent in the least by this manifestation, this transcendence is the Purushottama.
chris_hall1951 3 years ago
Brahman is subordinate to the Paramatma as its bodily effulgence.
Brahman is considered to be the effulgence of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
Brahman can be compared to the effulgence of the Sun, while the Sun itself would be compared to the transcendental form of the Supreme Personality of Godhead Sri Krishna.
There is the book called the Brahma Samhita- It is the prayer's of Lord Brahma, this creator of this Universe, after he had completed some penance on the scale of the supernatural being.. These prayers are being offered to Krishna The Supreme Personality of Godhead, after he had realized who Krishna was. In those prayer's he describes how Krishna is situated in the transcendence and how he is the cause of all causes. In those prayer's Lord Brahma gives a detailed description of the Lord in the transcendence with his Divine associates. He says in those prayers that the all pervading Brahman is merely the transcendental bodily effulgence of the Supreme Personality of Godhead Sri Krishna, this effulgence is emanating from the transcendental form of Krishna. You should definitely check it out, because I can see from how you are posting that you are definitely suffering from a poor fund of knowledge in regards to this most famous sutra. It is called Sri Brahma Samhita, I implore you to get a copy of it as soon as possible. Please ask Suryaji to help you with acquiring a copy as soon as possible. The Yogi Madhvacaryaji is also aware of this most very important sutra.
