The argument about celibacy
Meditationtime Forum Post
Date: Posted 5 years before Aug 27, 2017
MiBeloved 5 years ago
This morning Srila Yogeshwaranand showed me two kriyas which have to do with a real advanced stage of celibacy. This is actually beyond celibacy but it may be considered as more completion of celibacy. It does explain how the yoga siddha bodies are able to transcend sex attraction for coupling of sexual organs.
Mahayogin Yogeshwaranand used to discuss having a genital just for urination and not for sexual expression. So the question arises that what is the use of such an organ if it is only designed for urination.
Actually come to think of it, this question did not arise in my mind before puberty. I never thought that the organ had to be used for any other purpose and the organ did not demand attention as it did after puberty.
Sometimes when I recommend to young men that they should seriously consider retiring the organ from sex, they feel that I am giving them a very hard instruction and that I am not considering the proper use and demands of the organ. That may be, but if one uses the organ to the max, then one should not cry later for help when one is caught in the trap of the responsibility in a very disagreeable relationship
In the Puranas, there is the story about how lord Shiva broke off his genital organ and threw it aside when he found out that other supernatural beings had already divested the material species by propagating human beings before he was ready to engage doing that. . Seeing that there were many people all over the material world, Lord Shiva said to himself,
“ O shucks! What is the use of this thing? They already filled the creation with progeny. That is okay. In this time cycle I will have no use for this organ because more children are unnecessary.”
One might wonder what the God was thinking. Did he not see that he would need to use the organ for sexual indulgence to get sexual pleasure? Did he feel that the organ was only useful for sex if it was generating progeny? Thus if there was no intent for progeny, the organ had no sexual value?
================================
Srila Yogeshwaranand showed me an arc point which is where the two sides of the body arc across due to their difference in polarity. They arc across the pubis symphysis gristle tendon. There is a current which arc across this place in the subtle body and which stimulates sexual needs.
What happens in yoga practice is that if one is successful at pulling up the sexual energy then there comes a time when one can break this arc point so that the energy does not cross here any longer.
First one has to reach full urdhva reta status, which means that one’s sexual hormones are no longer going down for genital use but is coming up through the trunk of the subtle body. The initial stage of this accomplishment is when the energy is moving from the sexual area, to the base chakra and then going directly up the spine into the head.
Later the achievement changes and the energy no longer goes to the base chakra before moving up but moves up directly from the pubic area into the head, moving through the center of the subtle body. There were some Taoist yogis who mastered this secondary perfectional celibacy stage.
Then the next stage is where there is no more energy dropping down to pool in the sexual area, which means that there is no need to pull up the sexual energy, because it just does not pool there in the pubic area. The thighs get a change in purpose and lose interest in sponsoring sex drive. The bone marrow created in the thigh bones no longer have a lusty interest.
================================
Srila Yogeshwaranand scribbled out this diagram:
This means that the energy from the genitals is separate and no longer has a magnetic draw one to another. The energy from the right side of the body remains on the right and the left side does the same in full neutrality.
MiBeloved 5 years ago
This is some comments from Linked in about this topic:
Alfredo Delregato, MS, CIH, FLAC, FMA wrote:
Michael!
ॐ नमः शिवाय
Thank you very much for this important reminder.
Since I have taken the Brahmacharya vow, and the physical body has been celibate for a while, this injunctions you explained are critical for the survival of my vow.
In reading them, I must accept that I have not attained the full urdhva reta status, as I still feel the sexual pull in the physical.
I am at the initial stages where the energy is being pulled with effort from the base chakra to the head through Sushumna.
It is at the subtle level where the struggle is now continuing.
Last night I had a lucid dream that indicates to me that certain gains have been attained in that front.
Michael Beloved wrote:
Alfredo,
Usually success with urdhva reta is predetermined, meaning that it is already set up in a body during the body's infancy. If that is not the case, then it cannot be achieved in a particular life but even so one can continue the thrust for it in the afterlife by using the astral body to finish out the required kriyas.
Of course, that is risky because you never know what will challenge you which might break your determination in the astral hereafter.
We can keep an eye on each other, and give a shout to remind each other since it seems that will be out lot hereafter.
Jivana Kennedy wrote:
Yes, of course guys..
Do continue that thrust in the hereafter!
Shaking my head...Oye
Michael Beloved wrote:
For clarification, the word thrust can be replaced with the word endeavor.
Then it would read like this:
Usually success with urdhva reta is predetermined, meaning that it is already set up in a body during the body's infancy. If that is not the case, then it cannot be achieved in a particular life but even so one can continue the
endeavor for it in the afterlife by using the astral body to finish out the required kriyas.
Steve Davis, RYT, LMT, NCTMB wrote:
Your celibacy will do nothing at all for you to advance you on a spiritual path. No act, e.g., either the sex act, or the lack thereof, guarantees enlightenment.
Celibacy is not the meaning of brahmacharya.
My advice is to have very good sex as often as your body and your partner's body calls for it, with a loving partner who you truly love, and they love you. It really is very healthy, and it supports love and life for both partners. That is not a violation of brahmacharya. Actually, it supports it fully. It is a blessing to be in love, and to express that love in sexual union.
Look at the examples of Radha - Krishna, Shiva - Parvati, Vishnu - Laxmi, Brahma - Sarasvati, Purusha - Prakriti.
Another point: You will not gain from forcibly not having sex. Rather, it will diminish you over time! No pun intended!!
Responsibilities as a householder (Grihastha) as you may have in a loving relationship with your partner in society show duty in helping others, and should not be avoided.
Best regards to all.
Namaste,
Steve
Jivana Kennedy wrote:
"It is a blessing to be in love, and to express that love in sexual union."
It is a profound blessing....IMHO
Thank you Steve!
Michael Beloved wrote:
Steve,
We are so fortunate brother that you are here to define celibacy for us. We were puzzled by all those silly books from India which gave rules for brahmacharya and grihasta life, books like Manu Samhita, and all those yogis from India like Srila Yogeshwarananda, those backward and ignorant gurus who wrote books advocating celibacy and discouraging such a wonderful thing as sex with our partners. How stupid they were, people like Buddha who walked away from having sex with his young concubines and Shankara who took lifelong sannyasi celibate vows. These persons were not as fortunate as we are since we have you to guide us to the truth path.
And yes, Radha and Krishna are the examples we should follow and also Shiva and Parvati, because these persons tried to pass themselves off as being divine beings while in fact, we are all one and the same. I will have my Radha like Krishna did and I will also show my Universal Form on the battlefield when need be. I will have my Parvati and I will also destroy the world when the yugas are ended. I am just like Shiva in that way. Thanks for reminding me.
And thanks for reminding us that no act brings enlightenment. That is a great relief. Now with your directions and accepting your absolute truths, we will become enlightened without lifting a finger.
Steve Davis, RYT, LMT, NCTMB wrote:
Michael,
Thank you for your comment, although you missed the point of what I said.
Namaste,
Steve
Antonio Domene wrote:
all... I am very confused with your statements about ...Celibacy....Sex...and Love....is there any relation between love and sex ? why Celibacy ???? what for Celibacy ??? ...
Michael Beloved wrote:
Steve,
No offence intended!
Stick to your path and I will stick to mine.
If you do not find anything worthwhile in my experiences then you will get a positive response from me if you do one of two things:
1. Complain to the moderators and they can delete my membership from the site. Just the courage to do this, deserves the highest respect.
1. Detach yourself from whatever I write which has no value and post something about your experiences, which has value without denying that my path is taking place and has value on my end.
There is no harm in hearing of your spiritual path but that does not mean that I am going to travel on it. In fact I have no interest in it but I might develop an interest if you share your experiences and I find some worth in it.
For your information, I am a householder. I have four adult children. To get some insight into my sex experience and the conclusions which I drew from my mystic observations of the same, see my book sex you!
Here is a link but I can send you a complimentary copy if that is preferred.
Let's agree to disagree and we can chat as we travel on separate and perhaps diametrically-opposing paths.
==========================
https://sites.google.com/site/michaelbeloved/Home/sex-you
==========================
Michael Beloved wrote:
Antonio,
Thanks for your inquiry.
Celibacy is required in the Ashtanga Yoga process defined by Patanjali in the Yoga Sutras and it is also a requirement in other yoga books.
This does not mean that it is required in every other spiritual path.
I am doing that ashtanga yoga and the teachers whom I am taking instructions from require that as a prerequisite for full completion of that process.
Again it is not required on every spiritual path, it depends on who the teacher is and what system of spirituality it is.
I did two books on Yoga Sutras. I will put links below.
What about the path you follow?
Are there any requirements at any stage of that path?
Does it have any structure at all?
Maybe you can shed a bright light by explaining your process in a post.
All the best to you!
Links:
==========================
https://sites.google.com/site/michaelbeloved/yoga-sutras-of-patanjali
==========================
https://sites.google.com/site/michaelbeloved/Home/se
==========================
Antonio Domene wrote:
Michael you have not explained me the purpose of Celibacy ..???
Michael Beloved wrote:
Antonio,
As you can see from the abrasive responses, it is a very touchy subject and it causes one to acquire enemies and opponents left and right. So that is why I avoided the question.
In the yoga process I am practicing, it is required for full curbing of kundalini and for eventual adoption of a spiritual body with spiritual limbs and senses. In the process I follow the focus is not on the physical aspects of any part of the practice, even though the physical system is used. The target is the subtle body.
Unless it is reformed from certain habits, I will not attain what I am after. Certain habits of the subtle body cause it to always route back into creating another material creature form as human, animal or otherwise. Therefore it is my objective to upset that system and to do that I have to change the natural system of the subtle body.
If you study the life of Buddha you will see that he noticed about three things which he did not like about material existence and material bodies, and then these served as motivation for his quest.
To attain what he was after he did certain things and also insisted that his disciples do certain disciplines. So it is like that.
-
Continued from above…
Why are you concerned with celibacy?
Just for curiosity sake?
Well then how much time should I spend elaborating on it?
Satyajit K.T. wrote:
Michael,
What is the Sanskrit word for celibacy which is used in Astanga Yoga?
Michael Beloved wrote:
Satyajit,
Stay out of this. If you know there is no Sanskrit word for it in Ashtanga Yoga then state so and be done with it.
This discussion began about a practice experience.
Read the first two post and inquire about that.
I am not running a Satyapedia service.
Antonio Domene wrote:
Six years ago at age of 50 I retired myself to a Monastery in China...and I was planning to become a Buddhist Monk....after 3 months I realized that the celibacy was not my path...
...but still I would like to talk to you about celibacy and I wish to ask you once again about celibacy... What is celibacy for you ???
Michael Beloved wrote:
Antonio,
Okay you found out that for you, it is unnatural and I explained about what it is for me but you cannot pick up what I wrote in my last statements to you.
So that means that it is completely out of your orbit.
Therefore it is not a good thing to ask about something which rings no bell for you.
It is a bad dream, my posts, so best thing is to just not read them.
But what I can do is to get my printer to send you a complimentary copy of my book, sex you! which goes into details of my realization regarding the opposite of celibacy.
Here is a link to that book. Get me your address if you are interested in a copy.
==========================
https://sites.google.com/site/michaelbeloved/Home/sex-you
==========================
Antonio Domene wrote:
Michael it seems that you try to avoid a conversation based on the INTELLECT, There is nothing PERSONAL in my questions...
written language is a limitation of the thought..for these reason I am asking you for the last time....and with all respect.....please tell me about the purpose of the celibacy....
Michael Beloved wrote:
Antonio,
You are very persistent, so here goes.
First I cannot give a universal definition but I can tell you how I am using celibacy. First there are basically two types of celibacy. One is static and one is dynamic.
Static celibacy is like the system used in Catholicism, where a priest takes a vow never to marry and never to be involved with sexual indulgence. This same kind of vow is taken by many in the Indian system of spirituality in some sects. Usually if someone comes from India with the name Swami, it means that he took a vow to do certain things for the rest of his life, and one of those things is to be celibate and never to have sexual indulgence.
In fact it used to be so strict that if a Swami (avowed celibate monk) was discovered having sexual relationships, he was supposed to drown his body at the Trevini, which is the confluence of some important rivers in India.
I am not a monk of either the Western or Easter system. I do not practice the static celibacy because it does nothing to efficiently use up the sexual energy in the body. Subsequently the energy accumulates and the charge or force of it causes the monk to break his vow either by self indulgence or by finding a partner. In other words the repression of the energy is the bane of monks.
I practice a dynamic celibacy which has for its practice a method of using up the sexual energy on a daily basis by pranayama breath infusion and asana postures with special actions which are called mudras, bandhas and kriyas. These allow that the sexual energy does not pool or accumulate in the body but is used up in the psyche and is distributed evenly through the system.
==========================
One of the main reasons for this practice is that for me to associate with certain astral yogis, I have to do this, because that is a requirement for their association. So that is one purpose for it.
The other reason is that I am trying to attain a yoga siddha form using my subtle body to transform it and to do this all energy in the system has to be reintegrated in such a way that the attraction to life in the physical plane is removed from the psyche. Part of that attraction is caused by sex energy.
So for me to attain what I am after, celibacy is a great assistance.
In curbing kundalini, I found that celibacy is a major component for success.
Antonio Domene wrote:
Michael... I fully agree with your understanding of the Sexual Energy..... now I know that we can understand each other in this conversation.....the sexual energy has nothing to do with sex......sex and sexual energy is not the same.....
Therefore I think we should not use the word CELIBACY in this context..to me the concept of CELIBACY is abstaining from marriage and that implies abstention of SEXUAL intercourse....instead I will use the expression of keeping the sexual energy inside our root chakra or Dan Tian..
The sexual energy is stored in our root chakra...and that energy can be lifted to the Pineal Gland...in order to obtain another states of consciousness....I am NOT talking from the conceptual....I am talking about my OWN experience.....
Once I had that experience and it was a wonderful.....and my family was present in that time....just it happened after 3 days of intense meditation practice in a swimming pool....I had that experience at night and just after.. switching off my computer......
I have trained myself in order to see the subtle body and also it was experienced....the body is not only blood and flesh and bones...the Ki...the chi....is present...in 1000 of channels....the flow of energy is there.. beautiful energy...
This energy is stored in our root chakra....and when the " battery " is full we are ready to push up this energy to our pineal gland...bu
Marcia Beloved 5 years ago
Very interesting conversation!
I would add that in order to control the sexual energy and observe celibacy dynamically, it is absolutely essential to also master the stage in ashtanga yoga called pratyahara. Containing and restraining the sensual energy in all its aspects, gives a great boost in specifically controlling sexual energy.
MiBeloved 5 years ago
More from Linked in:
Satyajit K.T. wrote:
"Stay out of this"
LOL nice
Antonio Domene wrote:
Video Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nu99GRUUN6Y
Video Title: Qigong master projecting his chi energy by therion616
This is the sexual energy flow......
Antonio Domene wrote:
Michael Celibacy in the Buddhist traditions is NOT related only to avoid sexual intercourse...it is more linked with time and avoiding responsibilities of wife and children.
But we are part of the nature...and sexual activity is a gift to our senses and we must take it with respect....I do not use the word love....because love is something different...and I deny the connection Love-Sex
Manish Soni wrote:
LoL ... this is something we already know ..the use of this equipment is to generate more copies of us. It’s ok if we do that because the thought behind the usefulness of this equipment is to give life. Because we are all creation of God, the God feels pleasure in creating ourselves so he gives the same kind of pleasure to us. This tells us what is the meaning of giving and how it’s pleasurable. The only thing is to control of this sense so God tells us that the senses and desires should be used in controlled manner.
Here is the tricky part of free will and control comes. We are like flubber (if you have seen the flubber movie you can easily understand what is flubber). The flubber changes its shape and size quickly so as we. For us to remain in original shape we need the control, if we achieve that we will have the qualities of God.
The incarnations like Lord Krishna, Rama, Christ, Buddha etc are like role models of humans. We should follow what they were doing in their life time in each situation.
There is nothing unnecessary organ in our physical body. Our body adjusts according to environment because we are living and biological life form. When the evolution goes up or advances the physical forms becomes unimportant.
Antonio Domene wrote:
Yes Manish....there is nothing unnecessary organ in our physical body.....but the Mind is full of unnecessary believes and dogmas... amongst others...
Michael Beloved wrote:
Antonio,
It is interesting that a person like you who by your admittance turned away from being a monk, now wants to explain what the mission of celibacy is in buddhism. So you are an expert on this. Okay! From now on do not ask any questions about it just state your expertise.
You are closer to Buddha than I am , so you explain what he why he left his householder life and never rejoined it, and vehemently objected to admitting women into the sangha and stated that the duration of the sangha would be shortened because of admittance of females into it.
It is a stark contrast, you and Buddha, because he went to be an ascetic and stuck it out through and through and remained celibate all the way and encouraged hundreds of disciples in that way, and you who went and turned away from it and who are now speaking authoritatively about what is a necessary and what is an unnecessary organ.
=========================
One other thing. The video you posted about chi practice, I consider to be valid but there is another practice in the Taoist tradition which was explained by Charles Lux in Toaist Yoga. That is a similar practice to the one I am using right now. That other practice has nothing to do with the external world or with others outside the psyche. It concern is within the psyche between the core-self and the psychic components.
I was in China recently around 2007 and a Chinese friend took me to several of the old Taoist temples in Beijing, Xiang and some other places but we were unable to find any masters who were practicing that method, even though the feelings were there of the practice in the murti (statues) of the patriarchs.
However Charles Lux has explained much of it in his book.
I had many diagrams which are in some of my book which later I found in Lux's literature.
The kriya yoga tradition which concerns inner control of the components of the subtle body, the psyche and this inner Tao which has nothing to do with harmonizing with nature and dealing with other realities is the same practice even though they were developed in different cultures, in India and in China.
I state this to make it clear to you that I am not interested in that Chi force practice. Chi force is the same kundalini force but I am not interested in cultivating it in that method. My use of it is different.
Antonio Domene wrote:
Michael.....I have not said anything about what is a necessary and what is an unnecessary organ...but we can talk about it if you wish.....
I do not think that the Buddha ever objected to admitting women into the Shanga. There is a fundamental reason why monks and nuns are separated....Buddha understood very clearly that desire for sex is one of the foundations of human life....food.....protection....sleep ...and sexuality.......
Monks and Nuns are separated because they understand that is better to be separated...for both parties....To fight against the natural instinct is a very arduous task and is required self-discipline and understanding..
After leaving the monastery I started a new relation and I have two kids....Alexander 4 years and Catarina 2 years
Yes.... in that time I was not prepared to be a monk....and probably I will never be....but still the desire exist,,,,,because becoming a monk for me means to find the way to avoid to become again.....
He never encourage others to remain celibate.....The Buddha encourage to all to find the truth by themselves....
Michael Beloved wrote:
Antonio,
Your statement in the reply which has this paragraph in it, sounds real nice and informative but it is very misleading, was written by a man who has partial information and fragmented practice and who now wants to present himself as an authority on a subject which he just barely touched, and has not given his life to and has not completed the disciplines and who has robbed himself of the real benefits of the achievements of the highest form of yoga on this planet. Your situation is pathetic:
Here is one paragraph of your statement in that reply. Let us look at it one more time:
===================
The sexual energy is stored in our root chakra...and that energy can be lifted to the Pineal Gland...in order to obtain another states of consciousness....I am NOT talking from the conceptual....I am talking about my OWN experience.....
===================
First of all sexual energy is not stored in the root chakra. That is not possible.
Dan tian when it refers to the sex energy storage refers to a place called a kanda bulb in hatha yoga practice. That is not the root chakra. This is totally false. Root chakra is residence of kundalini. Sex energy is not even on any of the spinal chakras, not even on the second chakra which is called the sex chakra. Sex energy is in the sex organ chakra which is in the front part of the body in the groin area.
When kundalini goes into the head of the body through the spine, it does go with sex energy but only because it either draws that energy from the Dan Tien, or because it is forced to move up when some psychic action causes the sex energy to fuse into it.
Root chakra is concerned with survival irrespective of reproductive concerns.
Even though chi is the general term used, it depends on where that energy received its charge. If it was charged at the lowest dan tien, then it is a sex energy charge and it is nothing else.
Your explanation is not satisfactory because you did not stick to the practice enough and mostly because you did not isolate yourself and study the internal circuits sincerely.
=========================
-
Continued from above…
Have you read the Pali cannons which were written some years after Buddha's demise by his senior disciples, where details of his life are recorded? Please do read these literatures before you spout out misleading and totally false statements.
Do you not know about Buddha's discourse about women entering the monastic life, especially the discourse with his aunt and then later the arguments put forward by Ananda to Buddha later?
It is amazing how blank you are on this history and yet you speak as though you are in the know of these factors. Please stop pretending to be a Buddhist. You are for the most, a misrepresentative of Gautam Buddha.
Antonio Domene wrote:
I have never presented myself as an authority because I am not an authority....here it is clear that you are the authority and for that reason you have written " Your situation is pathetic: " this statement does not disqualify me...you disqualify yourself.....by writing this kind of statements.....
Alfredo 5 years ago
To be celibate or have the vow of Brahmacharya attracts lots of criticism in the LinkedIn post from which these conversations came from.
Many of the participants fall within the parameters of the American New Age movement, and the orbits of J. Krishnamurthi, Rajnesh, and other influential Gurus or philosophers within that orientation.
There is also a misleading idea of what Tantra is whereby many people in the West think that the very small left path of Tantra that dabbled in sex, is the whole of it. This is totally misleading, and also prevalent among many participants there.
My vow of Brahmacharya predates my knowing Michael and it was precisely when I started a thread on this very issue, at that LinkedIn group and was being attacked, that Michael wrote a comment and that comment called my attention about him.
AspiringSiddha 5 years ago
WOW...Thank you kindly Yogi Madhva for ALL the Clarification!
-
In connection with the content of the posts, please find the Life and Teachings of the Buddha according to the Pali Cannon,
As recommended by RishiDeva Michael Beloved:
In pdf format here: Suryananda-s-files
Or on Amazon below:
And, also in this series
