The 12 Noon Incident
Meditationtime Forum Post
Date: Posted 6 years before Oct 27, 2018
Jettins 6 years ago
I had a particular sequence of events that started on March 26, 2012 that appeared to have a connection. I will call it the "12 noon incident". I have a tendency to go long on my forum posts so I will keep it as brief and to the point as I can. I will reference it as experience #512 so I can quickly find it if anyone asks me more specific details later on.
After feeling the usual sensations I've become accustomed to recognizing as I enter the out of body condition, something unusual happened, something that's never happened before. As soon as I started moving my quasi physical body into the astral realm, I felt something inserting its fingers in my brain. I was only able to visually see for a moment it was a hooded figure before being pushed down and held there. I heard the voice of a man who spoke to me telepathically and eagerly to get my attention.
I was disoriented for a second but then heard the voice of a man who sounds very much like the voice of this man in the following YouTube link but deeper:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3M2Rq8riszg
The following conversation took place:
entity: can you hear me?
Me: Yeeeeeaasss (initially as I tested my own response)
entity: good, meet me at 12 noon in Charlotte
me: what, who are you?
Entity: you will know when you get there
me: I will prepare myself before I go there, it will not be my next out of body experience
entity: okay, but do not take too long
me: can you tell me who you are?
Entity: you will know when you get there
To me the “12 noon in Charlotte” appears as a kind of marker outside space-time that I can use while in the out of body condition to travel to a specific event. I find it very interesting how this individual delivered the message. I will now refer to it as the “12 noon marker”.
In experience number #374 from October 8, 2011 called "connected by our DNA", I was told by one of the men in the community that the way he best spoke to his father who was still alive, was to prepare him first with a pre-visit. It would set the stage for a more memorable encounter. This idea made much sense to me, yet I didn't think of anything further of it at the time. (I was also told something about our DNA and how it connects us, but this will be in another post if someone's interested in that please ask)
In experience #375 from October 9, 2011 called “meeting Wilson - mission beginning - & higher purpose”. I met a man who identified himself as an astral traveler. He was interested in showing me what other things we could do and asked me to follow him. He opened up a wormhole as we were flying very high and fast in the stratosphere. I went through the event horizon it became my first memorable experience with the perception of time, many more followed.
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In experience #275 from July 3, 2011 called "creating past and future reality outside of space-time". I had an experience that had me thinking about assisting those who need guidance, and questioning myself if I will have the same abilities after death. Where I ask myself what I am preparing for? “She knew we were connected in purpose". “The driving mechanism that allows me to see someone that is going to be meaningful in the future is emotion, intention and purpose which will make me be that who I will be”. These were my thoughts at the time the morning after the experience.
I have not made up my mind regarding where the experiences are pointing towards and the identity of the “entity”, but it seems that there's a general thought and behavior pattern that has been in the works creating these encounters that culminated the morning of March 26, 2012 with the “12 noon incident”.
In experience #514 from March 27, 2012 called "floating out of bedroom – 12 noon travel attempt". I attempted to travel to the 12 noon marker without success. I realize the thought has permeated deep within my psyche.
In experience #515 from March 27, 2012 called "wimpy demon encounter – 12 noon travel attempt”. I encountered a new force that took the form of a visual black midget demon with horns that was holding me down against the bed preventing me from getting up from my bed. I hesitated about its true origin and became concerned about a reciprocal attack if I were to strike with acute power.
I had concern but had no fear since it was a very vivid experience trigger from a nap. I looked at the demon and asked," Who are you?”. The demon replied, “Can’t you see I'm a demon”. The next day a friend [uMonk] sent me seemingly synchronistic a Red ICE Creations interview called “Paul Levy - Hour 1 - Wetiko & The Dreaming” regarding our shadow self and the nature of our psyche.
At this point I am naturally trying to find the reason if any, as to why I encounter this force when attempting to travel to the 12 noon marker. I am reviewing other seemingly negative forces I've encountered in other experiences to find a relationship. Maybe there's no relation to the 12 noon issue, maybe it's my sense of expectedness creating a “barrier” for me as a need to overcome. I'm wondering if it is something that I must know about myself, perhaps the thoughts this new kind of ‘head-to-head” encounter might help me reach a useful conclusion later on. It might have something to do with my sense of preparedness? “Maybe there's more that I need to do or realize before I try again?” I am writing this with the thoughts I had at the time to make you aware of the progression as I tell the story.
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In experience #521 from March 31, 2012 called" somewhere in Charlotte – 12 noon travel attempt", I attempted to reach the 12 noon marker by “clitching” through the ground plane without success. I closed my eyes and as I fell backwards into the ground imagined I was reaching my destination. I went through the ground but as I came to in the other side I realize that I was in the same place. “There’s something here for me! This city looks like Charlotte! But how am I going to find the exact location?” I floated up in the air and let go of all control to see if there was anywhere I would gravitate towards to. Nothing perceptible so I went around investigating the area.
This experience is what got me thinking about the actual practicality of finding this 12 noon marker. “Even if I were to find something my conscious mind could trick me into thinking I found the place”. Maybe the “barriers” I encounter along the way could be used as post signs to guide me in the right direction. Setting me up for the encounter might be more difficult than I thought.
In experience #525 from April 2, 2012 called "nap OBE using Yoga Nidra -you're not supposed to be here”. I flew away from home to the other side of the city. I went into a type of community center. I was pushed to the ground and then an argument about my presence there took place between the people there. I woke up and concentrated on reentering, I then find myself walking out of the place next to a woman. She tells me" you're not supposed to be here", the voice sounded familiar. I woke up from that experience thinking, "Well that was a clear post sign I'm not supposed to be there", but what should I make of it?
In experience #530 from April 5, 2012 called "lower and higher realms – burning as charcoal". As I was walking out of the house as I normally do during an OBE, a wind picked me up while still inside the house and took me through the front door and away from the house. It was very fast and disorienting at first. It was a force outside of my control that accelerated me high in the night sky. I looked behind me and then noticed that a woman was grabbing me by the chest as we flew at high speed. The following conversation took place:
me: what are you doing here?
Woman: you wouldn't understand
me: if there's anything you want to tell me say it to me now, otherwise I might forget later on. But don't lie to me, because I have ways to know when am lied to
woman: (turns head looks at me, mild surprise look)
me: what is your name?
Woman: Mirtia (my Romanian friend tells me this word in Romanian sounds like a word that means “in death”)
me: what do you mean you can't tell me?, this is what I've been preparing for, to be able to handle it, tell me something then I'll sort it out
woman: losing your memory is not going to be a problem where you're going, Do what I do..
The woman lets go of me and takes off flying faster. She started to burn and quickly dissolved away and was dissipated into ashes, like when blowing air into burning charcoal. At the time I was thinking what she had said. It was a great motivation for me to do the same. I accelerated thinking that consciousness is indestructible and burned like charcoal the same way.
I reappeared in my house with no break in consciousness. "I expected something more" I met a man in my house who said to me: the low class is the lower realm and the high-class is the higher realm, we flew in the middle because you're not supposed to be in the lower one.
To me this was very interesting because it appeared that there was direct intervention. “This sort of high level guiding is what I expect in order for me to be able to find the 12 noon marker” it got me thinking about the significance of dissolving away my astral body which became pretty obvious. I also reconsidered "12 noon", to have associations with clear and vibrant experiences of higher order.
In the past few months before this incident, I thought that I would do better in the lower realms, (which I associated with challenging encounters) because I could make the most difference. “But now I realize that is not the kind of thinking that I need.” I asked myself, what do I associate with the higher realms? The only experience I could be 100% certain it was of a high level, yet still physical. Experience #446.
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In experience #446 from January 29, 2012 called "majestically beautiful scenery –- nightshade butterflies”. I remember the music, it felt so beautiful, an amazing state of being. It kept repeating the verse from the song, “Oh God let us adore him” in perfect tonality and harmony, the colors where bright and enhanced, the butterflies had their own inner glow and gold looking beings in the distance. Only people who were planning for an event appeared to be there. There was symmetrical cross on top of a hill, I flew closer and noticed a women organizing things that looked like an angel, haha. Yeah. She looked back in wonderment. This experience got me thinking about my psyche and where my psyche might be projecting into at times. This place was clearly not of my own making there's just not enough harmony in my imagination. It was a Christian heaven indeed.
It was a beautiful place and the few that where there appear to be well informed and fulfilling a potential. It was an amazing place, I didn’t think I fitted in. “Why would I even go there, I don’t belong there” my thoughts at the time as I persisted I could do a greater difference in the lower realms, (there are very specific reasons about this initial conclusion, but I will not get to it here as it will require a mini-series).
After the experience #530 called “burring as charcoal”, I re-evaluated my thoughts and concluded that I “should raise my vibration”. I shouldn't toss away the idea of visiting the lower realms, yet I should focus my thoughts at least temporarily with what I associate with higher levels of thinking. In doing so, I bought myself a keyboard and started to learn how to play the piano. To me the piano resonates with perfect harmony and tonality as I experience in #446 called "majestically beautiful scenery in the hope that it would get me closer to finding the “12 noon marker” that I’ve built to be important.
In experience #539 from April 9, 2012 called “projecting from recliner as baby – Golden Robe”. Highlights a short sequence of out of body experience starting from the burning as charcoal incident where I find myself projecting consistently into daytime when the sun is bright outside. In this particular experience I found myself moving out of body from my recliner, (the recliner is another story in itself but I will say that I stopped using it over a year ago because the experiences were getting too intense at the time, so I slowed them down by inducing in my bed only) so projecting while in recliner is a sort of sign that I'm building back to it. I projected myself in the body of a baby; everything was to scale except that I was the size of the baby.
It appears, but I'm not certain that there has been a kind of shift in the type of experiences that I'm having. Is there any literature out there that can account for this? I also had the thoughts of wearing my golden robe while in the out of body condition, but this is another story. I was saving to do so for when I get back to my recliner and feel ready.
Experience #544 & #545 from April 14, 2012 called, ”Earth Blown away into ashes – reincarnation cycle parable – flown in landscapes". I find myself in a personal way understanding why I'm here. A Similar force takes me to a vast and beautiful scenery. I also see a representation of the earth, the entire globe to its minutest detail as might be seen from orbit. Then the earth and I start to dissolve away like the blowing of the charcoal scenario experienced in #530. I have not concluded what to make of it, if anything. But it did feel nice feeling me as pure consciousness. I welcome any speculation from you.
In experience #578 from May 5, 2012 called" Gold and Blue – guiding me towards the sky". I was standing outside of my house after walking from my room. I looked behind and I saw a woman hanging over my back. I looked at her and said:
Me: Are you going to finally tell me your name?
Women: Gold and Blue. (I thought it was strange at the time)
Me: Where do we go from here?
Women: the sky, while pointing at it with her arm
I attempted to fly us to the sky but for an unknown reason my abilities weren't there, I couldn't fly us up even after trying every flying technique I know (no discernible barriers in effect). It was as if flying abilities where OFF. The woman says as she sees me trying to fly," you fly old-style". She then flew away made a turn in the sky and I screamed, “Hey wait for me”. She flew into a pair of wings that were flying up high that later seems to have incorporated with her. She replied before flying away, “Meet me there”.
I woke up from that experience thinking that it was an invitation. I remembered the 12 noon scenario that I've been trying to prepare myself into and thought of it as an invitation to try it again. In the last few weeks I've been focusing all my free time to practicing the piano. A had not thought much about the “12 noon marker” before this experience, even though my frequent LD/OOBE/AP experiences never stopped.
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Experience #580 from May 8, 2012, called “THE 12 NOON ENCOUNTER’. I found myself nearly paralyzed in the bed after feeling the usual immersion sensations that I’ve become accustomed to recognizing while entering the non-physical state. My mind was made up; I was going to travel to the “12 noon marker”. I did not know how I was going to get there but I would try.
I could clearly see everything in my room but I could not move. I was focusing in trying to get up from bed when suddenly instead of my quasi physical body moving; the entire visual scape shifted itself by moving into me. I was now standing outside the house but only for a brief moment.
I felt myself back in the bed, successfully re-entered. I felt myself nearly paralyzed again. I could hear the thoughts, audible internal voice of a man been made fun of and having sad thoughts. The voice had a progression... From being sad, then somewhat angry, then in content, and then reaching closure, closure by realizing he had a second chance. The internal voice that seemed to be generated outside of my conscious self was coming to terms with things, his own psyche.
As this is going on, I noticed thick blankets moving by themselves from the bed into the floor. “Maybe I should move on top of the blankets”. I could barely move but I would try anyway. It took me about a minute to reach the blanket. Concerned about waking up prematurely, I closed my eyes and started to repeat “The 12 noon marker, 12 noon charlotte”.
I started to feel movement, “the wind is blowing”. I feel the acceleration, “It is totally outside of my control” I felt sudden bursts of acceleration and wind gusts indicating to me that I was shifting dimensions. My eyes are still closed and I can hear everything. I opened my eyes until about 20 seconds into the flight. I’m flying on top of a city; I can see mountains in the distance. The magical ride starts to decline, “It must know where I am supposed to go!
The ride slow down as it goes through a wall. I pass through the wall without any resistance as I expected. I am inside a wooden looking building, similar to what would be a large rodeo style themed restaurant/resort at Disney. I am floated around inside the building. I see a clock in the wall that marks 11:58am. “Oh, this is significant, I did not control it, and it must be the right place”. The blanket which was now a thin mattress lands on the ground in front of an opened door. “Ah, there you are!!” I recognized the black man. "Hey there" he replied. The following exact conversation as best to my memory happened:
Man: Hey, what do you know about this place?
Me: I came far to get here, why don’t you tell me what you know first, then I’ll tell you what I know.
Man: There’s only one rule here, not to fight with each other.
He then started talking about his life, I don’t remember exact words but he was sad things hadn’t gone as he hopped.
Me: Haven’t you noticed that you have memories that don’t appear to be your own?
Man: (looks away)
Me: For example you played a sport in your life and now suddenly you feel like doing another sport that you never considered.
Man: Yes
I could tell he was thinking by the changing of his clothing to basketball jersey and basketball shorts. He was also getting progressively taller as if I’d touched on something important to him.
Me: What do you think brought me here? Look at this place, this place is huge. I would have never been able to find you here unless something brought me here. My Higher Self flew me here for you.
Man: ah, don’t give me any of that New Age crap! (Quickly getting angrier and taller, starts to walk away)
Me: The Higher Self is going to give you another chance don’t worry about it, but you need to accept things to move on, then things will change. You will be able to re-incarnate.
Man: That would be risky (walks off into a nearby elevator, elevator door I still opened and is appearing angrier)
Me: Hey look at my arms (as I stretched them much longer than normal)
Man: Yeah what about it? (the man stretched his arms as well to imply it was not a big deal)
Me: Don’t you see, you’re in a special place!
Everything resembled physical reality, so I thought of showing him the non-physical nature of ourselves to help him accept that more was possible. I realize that he was being in a situation of escapism, not willing to fully embrace the nature of his reality.
I wonder why I was taken there as the destination for the 12 noon incident I so vividly and clearly remember, but there are clues. The voice progression from being sad, then somewhat angry, then in content, and then reaching closure, closure by realizing he had a second chance. Perhaps this will be the sequential thought process this man will have at one point and my initial contact marked a turning point in his evolution? It is speculative, but who said thinking was not required?
It appears that whatever the motivation triggered the 12 noon initial incident, it was not to fulfill single event, but to amend the ripples from an unknown origin. He knew I would be persistent, appearing [the entity] to know a lot about me.
Whichever barrier and obstacle had to be overcome and situation understood before creating the state of being necessary for the experience to finally take shape, gives me the sense of satisfaction going forward, wherever it may lead.
Jettins
Thank you Mi Beloved for reading, I wrote it specifically to put it in your site and learn about your incredible insights. My friend Omkar referred me to you forum. Have a great day!
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Continued from above…
MiBeloved 6 years ago
Experience #512
After feeling the usual sensations I've become accustomed to recognizing as I enter the out of body condition, something unusual happened, something that's never happened before. As soon as I started moving my quasi physical body into the astral realm, I felt something inserting its fingers in my brain. I was only able to visually see for a moment it was a hooded figure before being pushed down and held there. I heard the voice of a man who spoke to me telepathically and eagerly to get my attention.
MiBeloved’s Remark:
By quasi physical body, I assume you mean the astral body when it is in a dimension where it feels as if it is a physical form. These realms in which the subtle body feels as though it is physical are parallel worlds or dimensions which are immediately adjacent to this physical existence.
Usually when people depart from a body at its death, they find themselves in these astral places, and there they create by mental imagination a situation which is similar to what they were doing in the last body. The person might make a house which looks exactly like the house he or she lived in when last using a physical body.
There is really no need for anyone to insert their fingers into another’s astral body but this may happen if you are expecting such occurrences to happen. One astral body can pass through another astral body just as we know for sure that radio frequencies pass through wall and even pass through the same space in which other such frequencies are broadcasted.
If someone passed through your astral form, it means that his or her astral body was in another dimension, in a different frequency. There are trillions of these frequencies.
There is no need for anyone to hold anyone down in the astral existence, just as there is really no need for it on the physical end but it does happen if one gets into a dimension where such things take place.
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#514
In experience #514 from March 27, 2012 called "floating out of bedroom – 12 noon travel attempt". I attempted to travel to the 12 noon marker without success. I realize the thought has permeated deep within my psyche.
MiBeloved’s Response:
Trying to return to the same astral location or same astral place is, generally speaking, futile.
Reason:
Many of these astral realms go through rapid transitions from moment to moment what to speak of from day to day. In the astral world, a tide of water from an astral sea might rise over 100 feet in seconds and then vanish as if it was never there.
One of the reasons why we are so hung up on physical existence is the stability of matter on this level. The astral world is also matter but subtle matter. It is moving rapidly. Think of the electron movement within your technology (laptop). It is moving very rapidly. So the astral world is similar to that.
There are settled domains though but usually one cannot access these when one has a physical body. This is because the astral form when it is tied to a physical body, remains anchored mostly to the psychic frequency which operates that body.
Advice:
Find astral persons by finding their vibration not their location. Find advanced beings, angels, yogis, and siddhas by following their instructions. They quickly key into the vibration of a person who is attuned to their advice.
Instead of locating an advanced astral being, locate the person’s instructions, execute these, and the person will contact you in a jiffy.
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Experience #580 from May 8, 2012, called“THE 12 NOON ENCOUNTER’
MiBeloved’s Response:
Astral projection is okay and so is the excitement it brings into the life of the spiritual aspirant. It can however become a distraction. The real value of astral projection is its ability to make a person know for sure that he or she is more than just a physical system; that the person will survive psychologically when the physical body is dead and gone.
However beyond that astral projection has very little value. In yoga astral projection takes on a very meaningful aspect when one learns how to reach advanced beings, siddhas, for instructions on how to advance spiritually while using a physical body. You can be instantly in the presence of an advanced being if you are permitted to make the contact by that person through astral projection.
But then over time there is another thing which happens which is that one realizes that there is no need to astral project since one can be omni-locational without even moving from a certain location. This is similar to what is called lucid dreaming, where the person does everything from the location where the physical body resides even without the astral one being projected out of the physical system.
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Sleep paralysis is a separate study. It is vital for understanding the involuntary system which controls astral projection. Even though people on the Web are saying that astral projection is something which is controlled by the individual. Most of that is so much hype that it is not worth discussing.
What causes sleep paralysis?
Is there is a system in the body which causes astral projection?
Is that system the same system which causes tiredness and sleep?
What system is it?
Jettins 6 years ago
MiBeloved wrote:
Many of these astral realms go through rapid transitions from moment to moment what to speak of from day to day. In the astral world, a tide of water from an astral sea might rise over 100 feet in seconds and then vanish as if it was never there.
Jettins Reply:
Yes, I've also noticed the dynamic elements of the states of being. To be honest I cannot know for 100% certainty about the validity of actually returning to a place, but one thing I know for sure it can very well look like your returning to the same place. The curious thing that I've consistently noticed when I re-enter an experience, usually a few seconds in between, is that I will find myself in a very similarity looking place but a different time signature. For example I might revisit the same place seconds apart in physical time, only to find myself that everyone is gone except for one person and I find that something is different. It will be night time instead of daytime in the spawn of seconds that it took me to re-enter.
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MiBeloved wrote:
One of the reasons why we are so hung up on physical existence is the stability of matter on this level. The astral world is also matter but subtle matter. It is moving rapidly. Think of the electron movement within your technology (laptop). It is moving very rapidly. So the astral world is similar to that.
Jettins Reply:
Indeed, the term I like and seems to fit the description is NPMR, or non-physical matter reality. I like the analogy there. I think the quantum world is starting to have the language to describe these realities.
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MiBeloved wrote:
There are settled domains though but usually one cannot access these when one has a physical body. This is because the astral form when it is tied to a physical body, remains anchored mostly to the psychic frequency which operates that body.
Jettins Reply:
It's interesting you mentioned about psychic frequency, this makes much sense to me. It implies that there are unconscious forces or drives that connects people or entities with specific experiences.
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MiBeloved wrote:
Find astral persons by finding their vibration not their location. Find advanced beings, angels, yogis, and siddhas by following their instructions. They quickly key into the vibration of a person who is attuned to their advice.
Instead of locating an advanced astral being, locate the person’s instructions, execute these, and the person will contact you in a jiffy.
Jettins Reply:
Thanks for the advice; I will keep this in mind. As of yet I'm not attempting to summon experiences with specific entities. It might have appeared from what I wrote, but it's only until recently that I've become nearly fearless in the astral states. All this year my intentions have been to prepare, in other words to feel very comfortable inside my own self. I've been telling myself ever since I got started doing this consistently about two years ago, that whatever's out there will wait for me until I'm ready. This way I feel that I'm progressively building up to more experiences, encounters, or challenges.
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MiBeloved wrote:
The real value of astral projection is its ability to make a person know for sure that he or she is more than just a physical system; that the person will survive psychologically when the physical body is dead and gone.
Jettins Reply:
I like talking about these subjects, but not everyone is interested. This is fine by me. It's like with everything else we enjoyed talking about what we do. I wonder if this is the reason why I find myself talking to people about it nonphysical realities. It looks to me as if there's a higher purpose making these experiences much easier for me. Looking at it this way, it appears that it might come from the unconscious and subconscious mind, (and multidimensional states I don't feel comfortable talking about yet) altering my psychic field in a sense to attract me, or connect me to people that can benefit from what I have to say. This is specifically noticeable in the astral realms. My beliefs or ideas are upgradable the more I learn and experience. There are other subsystems that I'm not aware that affect things in direct ways no doubt, but at least in looking at the overall it seems there's something to it as to how it operates.
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MiBeloved wrote:
You can be instantly in the presence of an advanced being if you are permitted to make the contact by that person through astral projection.
Jettins Reply:
I'm counting on it, it makes sense to me that I should feel worthy of it. I hope to be ready by next year. Thinking that I might be ready by next year comes from a reflection I had within a dream.
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MiBeloved wrote:
But then over time there is another thing which happens which is that one realizes that there is no need to astral project since one can be omni-locational without even moving from a certain location. This is similar to what is called lucid dreaming, where the person does everything from the location where the physical body resides even without the astral one being projected out of the physical system.Him
Jettins Reply:
Yes, this explains why some experiences have a movie theater quality to them, and also when having lucid dream type experiences. I'm sure others have had experiences where you don't move, yet you're still able to see from behind your closed eyelids. Most of by memorable experiences come from out of body experiences. I think the reason might be that I retain more awareness of my physical rationale, it enhances the apparent physicality of the experiences (that I've become naturally accustomed to). At the same time these experiences are usually more significant to me because there is little or no loss in consciousness as I transition in. I simply associate the" stepping out of body" action with enhanced awareness of my surroundings, which to me serves to stabilize myself in a given realm. I don't doubt there are other mental approaches that accomplish this purpose.
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MiBeloved wrote:
Sleep paralysis is a separate study. It is vital for understanding the involuntary system which controls astral projection. Even though people on the Web are saying that astral projection is something which is controlled by the individual. Most of that is so much hype that it is not worth discussing.
Jettins Reply:
This makes sense to me it explains why it is easy for some and difficult for others. I think the natural processes only very gifted people are able to consciously control. Is practically wise to think of it as an involuntary system, yet if understood it could be used to help increase the probability of sleep paralysis happening. Now this doesn't involve simply looking at a chart for REM cycles in my opinion. I'm referring to sleep paralysis as a catalyst for an out of body experience.
I think there are emotional, psychological and biological implications that need to be considered if someone really wants to have consistent experiences.
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MiBeloved wrote:
What causes sleep paralysis?
Jettins Reply:
I think it's like trying to balance an equation and people having different variables. I would not know how much weight a given variable might have to a specific person, but there could be a process at the personal level that significantly increases this goal. I assume we are referring to sleep paralysis as the mind awake/aware and conscious of its sleep state and your body biologically asleep. The same condition that happens every night minus the" mind awake and conscious of its sleep state" part.
Some would argue there's a way to induce a narcoleptic kind of state to induce sleep paralysis, but I do not have enough information on this. All I know is what I can do to increase the probabilities of it happening to myself. It is and interesting point in I think it's worth discussing.
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MiBeloved wrote:
Is there is a system in the body which causes astral projection?
Jettins Reply:
I don't know for sure except for what I've read in the literature and I've read irreconcilable differences. I take an experience-based approach to understanding the subtleties of my experiences. Maybe this forum can help me better understand what I'm lacking.
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MiBeloved wrote:
Is that system the same system which causes tiredness and sleep?
Jettins Reply:
What a good question, but I don't know for sure. I can only tell you how I can practically use it to my advantage. I would like to read your thoughts on it.
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MiBeloved wrote:
By quasi physical body, I assume you mean the astral body when it is in a dimension where it feels as if it is a physical form. These realms in which the subtle body feels as though it is physical are parallel worlds or dimensions which are immediately adjacent to this physical existence.
Jettins Reply:
Yes, that's exactly what I meant. The astral body taking physical form. I realize I can step up the language in this forum a little bit more as we understand each other. The word multidimensional doesn't come easy for many, which is why I unconsciously have been cutting back using it I think.
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MiBeloved wrote:
Usually when people depart from a body at its death, they find themselves in these astral places, and there they create by mental imagination a situation which is similar to what they were doing in the last body. The person might make a house which looks exactly like the house he or she lived in when last using a physical body.
Jettins Reply:
For anyone out there still having doubts, I tell you that this above statement is absolutely correct. I have had more than a few experiences showing me this absolute fact. This is the theme of several sequential and related experiences that I will talk about in another very long post.
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Continued from above…
MiBeloved wrote:
There is really no need for anyone to insert their fingers into another’s astral body but this may happen if you are expecting such occurrences to happen. One astral body can pass through another astral body just as we know for sure that radio frequencies pass through wall and even pass through the same space in which other such frequencies are broadcasted.
Jettins Reply:
It may happen if someone's expecting it to happen we create our reality in the astral realms after all. This might have come from an alien abduction book I read. To me the inserting of the fingers represents a metaphoric representation of what I expected at an unconscious level direct contact to be like. At the same time, to me it does not invalidate the experience as being any less real, or having any less substance.
It appears that subtle forces will adapt to our ever changing psychological self. Yet this does not invalidate their origin even if unknown. Which is why when attempting to explain the overall process that generates experience in the astral states of being, I would rather use words such as: intention, purpose, and emotion (intentional and unintentional, yet it appears to me to have a discernible pattern, or path if... You can find more of my thoughts regarding this in my forum). I tried not to get into the ins and outs of things in the experience itself as it would've gotten very messy and more difficult to read, but it's great as a follow-up thanks for pointing it out.
The questions to have in mind are: At what point does a 'force' become a separate entity? Would it require redefining things to include parallel consciousness independently existing in a multidimensional field, yet part of us?. Is our psychic field projecting in the astral all the time, what's it capable of? In a dynamic reality, what is the end of you and beginning of something outside of yourself? What are the boundaries of the psyche or state of being, and the realm in which we reside? Assuming these cannot exist fully separate, everything must affect each other, how do we know human consciousness is not a manifestation of a greater construct, or cosmic play if you will?
I have my own thoughts on this, but I would like to read about what others think about it. I will give you a hint about it now. Re-envisioning it as constriction and boundless can capture its essence, i think.
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MiBeloved wrote:
If someone passed through your astral form, it means that his or her astral body was in another dimension, in a different frequency. There are trillions of these frequencies.
Jettins Reply:
It's amazing isn't it? Could you share your philosophical take on the nature of reality? Thanks, have a great day!
MiBeloved 6 years ago
MiBeloved wrote: Is there is a system in the body which causes astral projection?
Jettins Reply:
I don't know for sure except for what I've read in the literature and I've read irreconcilable differences. I take an experience-based approach to understanding the subtleties of my experiences. Maybe this forum can help me better understand what I'm lacking.
MiBeloved's Response:
There is a system in the body which causes astral projection. It is the same system which conducts involuntary functions like breathing, digesting and evacuating. Even though we can jump in and operate these functions, the higher reality is that these systems operate of their own accord with or without our assistance or temporary interruption.
Astral projection is taking place every time the physical system sleeps but the person involved may not be aware of it. The same psychic mechanism which causes drowsiness and then sleep, is the system which regulates astral projection.
The real take on astral projection is not doing it, but realizing when it is done, moving from being unconscious to conscious when the astral body is about to separate or has already been displaced out of the physical form.
Have you ever realized that you are breathing and wondered how it is happening without your permission, without your input?
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MiBeloved wrote:
If someone passed through your astral form, it means that his or her astral body was in another dimension, in a different frequency. There are trillions of these frequencies.
Jettins Reply:
It's amazing isn't it? Could you share your philosophical take on the nature of reality? Thanks, have a great day!
MiBeloved's Response:
In a sense everything is real, and that is the nature of reality.
Whatever there is, is either a cause or an effect and in either case there is affectional reality. The ultimate cause is the Reality but anything which was produced from it has value because of a connection with that ultimate cause.
Values are not nonsense. Values are the way of gauging how near or far an effect is from its cause. Of course anyone can make a mistake in calculating such value but our mistakes do not change the fact that everything is interconnected ultimately and linked in varying values to the supreme cause.
Look at a dollar bill. It is just a piece of paper with a $1 written on it. As paper and ink it is not even worth a penny, and yet because it is was issued by the Federal Reserve, it is worth 100 pennies. To say that it is just worth one penny or less is to avoid the stark reality which is that it has the value of 100 pennies to the Federal Authorities who run the country.
In the same way the varying factors which we encounter are all reality because everything has to have a reference either directly and indirectly to the Primal Cause.
In the Mahabharata, Drona was told a false statement about his son’s death. We can say that it was just illusion but the consequences belie such a simple explanation of what happened. People knew that Drona took a vow that he would stop fighting on the battlefield, if his son Ashvattama was killed.
When however the opposing army realized that Drona would kill their soldiers and they would lose the battle, Krishna advised that it be announced that the son of Drona was dead. One person, to help in this illusion, killed an elephant who was Ashvatthama’s name sake. The elephant did nothing wrong and yet because of having a similar name, it was killed. See the power of illusion even in a mere name, that one’s life can be taken because of it, coincidentally. Then this elephant killer announced that Ashvattama was dead. He knew well that it was an elephant but his intention was to make Drona think that Drona’s son was dead.
When Drona heard about it and heard who said it, he kept on fighting, saying something to the effect that he did not trust the warrior who announced the death of his son. This person was Bhima, whom Drona disliked and considered to be an unreliable witness.
So then Krishna went to Yudhishthira and encouraged him to announce that Ashvattama was dead. Krishna explained that Yudhishthira was a reliable witness and if he said the fact, then Drona would believe it and would stop fighting immediately, thus sparing their army.
So then Yudhishthira, who was said to be Good Behavior Personified, stated that Ashvattama was surely dead. Then and there Drona put aside his armor and weapons and sat in lotus posture to enter into yogic trance until his body would die.
The point is that even an untruth has a reality behind it. It not a mere illusion. Because the untruth was spoken by a reliable witness it had the force of the truth itself. Therefore we should always know for sure that even illusions are based on reality, and can definitely affect us. There is no such thing as no value or no judgment except in our silly little minds.
Ask the sun about the value of the earth and then ask the earth about the value of the sun. There had better be value there or we will all be finished. The sun judged that until it is finished, the earth will forever spin around it and that is exactly what is taking place.
Jettins 6 years ago
MiBeloved wrote:
The real take on astral projection is not doing it, but realizing when it is done, moving from being unconscious to conscious when the astral body is about to separate
Jettins Reply:
What a great way of saying it. The way I think of it is to create the conditions in our mind that can help us detect or realize our state.
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MiBeloved wrote:
There is a system in the body which causes astral projection. It is the same system which conducts involuntary functions like breathing, digesting and evacuating.
Have you ever realized that you are breathing and wondered how it is happening without your permission, without your input?
Jettins Reply:
Indeed I have. It implies to me that my system has given me full permission for astral projection.
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MiBeloved wrote:
The ultimate cause is the Reality but anything which was produced from it has value because of a connection with that ultimate cause.
Jettins Reply:
Would you say the value gain is what is understood from the experience? Which is what created it in the first place?
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MiBeloved wrote:
Values are the way of gauging how near or far an effect is from its cause.
Jettins Reply:
To me this implies there is an underlying evolutionary process.
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MiBeloved wrote:
In the same way the varying factors which we encounter are all reality because everything has to have a reference either directly and indirectly to the Primal Cause.
Jettins Reply:
It makes so much sense, that’s again for you’re in depth response. I wonder what Bhima was offered in return for lying to Drona.
MiBeloved 6 years ago
Bhima got his satisfaction because he wanted to see Drona in a deceased condition.
That alone was enough of a reward to him.
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And yes the value gain is what is culled from the experience.
It is stated nicely by Patanjali in his Yoga Sutras:
prakāśa kriyā sthiti śăla
ṁ bhūtendriyātmakaṁ
bhogāpavargārtha
ṁ dṛśyam
What is perceived is of the nature of the mundane elements and the sense organs and is formed in clear perception, action or stability. Its purpose is to give experience or to allow liberation. (2.18)
