Surya Yoga Sadhana - Practice Panel - 12/04/2012
Meditationtime Forum Post
Date: Posted 5 years before Jan 07, 2018
unlimitedsun 5 years ago
Tues. - 12/04/2012
Yoga-Breath of fire practice session:
Session was focused on the lower part of the body with a need of relatively more effort in the left thigh.
Life Force Energy:
Shift in practice: attempts at willing the energy downward versus soliciting it to rise as usual.
And attempts were made to maintain locks until the energy dissipates, along with momentary deep breaths to increase breathing capability.
Efforts made to relax the neck muscle, against the stressors of life.
Compression was executed in a limited fashion, as attention/ will power followed the energy as it spread/ manifested, encouraging it to spread further, as well as shed insight/ light into the subtle body.
One aspect of the compression is more about the trail of pain at this stage. Bringing about an increased control over the life force energy.
Mind focus: a dynamic and exerted process of observing and analyzing by the mind and intellect.
Attention was generally maintained at the back of the mind-space. When predominant activities were perceived from the buddhi organ, the self turned to accept the situation, and then returned focus to naad or the back of the head. However the sources of the thought formations could not be determined with any precision whatsoever.
It was also noted that focus was not sufficient to cause the attention to be totally absorbed in naad. The presence of the thought forming region, the intellect even when inactive was felt. It was just as being concentrated the other way but aware that the TV is on in the room, somewhere in the background.
Naad immersion is insufficient to successfully attempt conjoint relocation of both the observing buddhi organ/self and the frequency source from the original position of the node to the frontal intellectually active zone.
Goals and Objectives–long term:
Subtle body detection: looking down in the trunk more.
Deepen connection with naad the transcendental sound frequency.
Book Readings:
The "Yoga Sutras" of Patanjali; Enlightenment in practical terms!
Subtle body ventures or interests recalled synopses/ retell:
A random association with distant family members, including (the) daughter I don’t have (yet) in this life time.
A superficial intimate interaction.
An interaction with a long time associate I had just sent an email to at about a temple.
Reflections:
Still thinking, lest I stop imagining!
MiBeloved 5 years ago
unlimitedsun wrote:
Naad immersion is insufficient to successfully attempt conjoint relocation of both the observing buddhi organ/self and the frequency source from the original position of the node to the frontal intellectually active zone.
MiBeloved's Response:
I am not so sure of what you wrote above but I want to clarify that focus on naad has nothing to do with the buddhi. The core-self does not carry or fetch buddhi intellect orb along when it goes to naad.
Intellect is left behind to do whatever magic show it wants to play around with.
Only the core self goes back with naad, intellect is not taken.
Let me know if this is not clear.
unlimitedsun 5 years ago
Yes, but perhaps I should look into the book first.
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In the meantime, let me inquire:
The attention is involved when one turns towards the naad?
The attention/awareness resides with the intellect?
Intellect and self are distinct, intellect is an adjunct/processor for the benefit of the self.
Self, atma is mobile so is the intellect, buddhi organ.
Please help make sense.
MiBeloved 5 years ago
unlimitedsun wrote:
The attention is involved when one turns towards the naad?
The attention/awareness resides with the intellect?
MiBeloved's Response:
Those two statements are not clear. Rephrase them please.
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unlimitedsun wrote:
Intellect and self are distinct, intellect is an adjunct/processor for the benefit of the self.
MiBeloved's Response:
Who says that the intellect is there for the benefit of the self? Let us just say that it is there. The creation is not here for your benefit. Just accept that it is here and let the matter rest there. Don’t try to extract some ownership or beneficial proprietorship.
You are harnessed to an intellect and that is all we know. In fact so far as we can see you are here for the benefit of the intellect to provide it with a power source.
People build a generator to power an appliance, not an appliance to power a generator.
Imagine if the horses in the Queen’s stables in Buckingham Palace were being told by one of their kind that the harnesses which were strapped to their faces was there for their (the horses) benefit. How would that sound?
You would make a good slave. That is for sure!
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unlimitedsun wrote:
Self, atma is mobile so is the intellect, buddhi organ.
MiBeloved's Response:
Both are mobile but usually they are stationary in a default location in the subtle head. Is the driver in an automobile mobile in reference to the automobile? The answer is no. In reference to the moving auto, the driver is stationary behind the steering wheel. That is the default position.
However to get gas, we find that the driver stops the car and moves away from the default driver’s seat.
Using the steering wheel to represent the intellect, we can see that the intellect is very stationary. It can be moved but much effort has to be put in to move it, like unbolting so many screws and using a puller. So the intellect is not easy to move but it can move.
Students usually find that the core-self is very difficult to move initially. In fact initially they do not understand the instruction to move the core self because when they try to do so, it does not move. However it can move. For a beginner the driver is harnessed in with unsnap-able seat belts and he will have to stay there sitting forever because he just cannot get himself unbuckled.
For doing naad properly, the driver has to relocate to the back seat but he finds that this is impossible because the harness equipment has a lock on it which he has no key to.
unlimitedsun 5 years ago
So both the soul and intellect organ are mobile. And the soul has far greater mobility.
The soul will it seems easily go around, even outside the body limits.
The intellect joins the life force in sex climax. Are there other areas that the intellect would typically wander to?
When doing bhastrika one goal for my level is to closely trace the kundalini energy (the life force), and actually attempt to see where it is moving. Is it mainly the soul that is involved in that task?
MiBeloved 5 years ago
unlimitedsun wrote:
So both the soul and intellect organ are mobile. And the soul has far greater mobility.
MiBeloved's Response:
They are both objects, which implies that they can be relocated.
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unlimitedsun wrote:
The soul will it seems easily go around, even outside the body limits.
MiBeloved's Response:
I hope that you are not thinking that the soul is the subtle body. The soul moves with the subtle body as that form moves about but the soul is not the subtle body. It is only a component in the subtle body. Hopefully you are not confusing the soul as the subtle body.
There is also big time confusion as the soul being the mind in the Western understanding of the soul. People say that they go in themselves, which really means going in the mind and not in the core-self. The psyche is not the core-self even though it houses that self.
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unlimitedsun wrote:
The intellect joins the life force in sex climax. Are there other areas that the intellect would typically wander to?
MiBeloved's Response:
What is the reason for this question or is it being asked just for the heck of it?
Please don’t regard the teacher as a whimsical answering service. Give reasons why you are asking this, then I will deal with it at my discretion. Remember that your intellect is curious and you, as the soul, are a servant of your intellect but that does not mean that you should go out and hire other servants at no cost to yourself.
Why should the teacher also become your intellect’s servant? Isn’t one servant enough for the master intellect?
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unlimitedsun wrote:
When doing bhastrika one goal for my level is to closely trace the kundalini energy (the life force), and actually attempt to see where it is moving. Is it mainly the soul that is involved in that task?
MiBeloved's Response:
It is mainly the soul along with the sense of identity energy which surrounds the soul on all sides. The soul cannot do anything without using that energy, at least so long as it is in the material world.
However to see what is happening the soul has to take help from prana or subtle energy, the same energy which is infused by the breath infusion practice. This energy gives vision about what happens down in the subtle body. This energy is like a flash light which can illuminate itself so that you can see it in the dark.
Even though the intellect comes to the kundalini during sex expression, usually the intellect is not involved with the kundalini during breath infusion movements of the kundalini. Usually the intellect remains in the head and does not move down into the body.
This attitude of the intellect not to move out of the head during the practice is felt by the soul as reluctance to go down into the body. But once the soul overcomes this reluctance it is able to go down or at least look down into the body. Its looking in this way is the focus of its interest energy down into the body.
unlimitedsun 5 years ago
Much has been learned from the replies, and it is very much appreciated.
It is good to understand more about the tools that one has to use. So I was interested in the mobility of both the self and the buddhi organ.
Also, Meditation Pictorial Pg. 52 depicts: "Core-self in clarity outside the skull area".
Thank you!
MiBeloved 5 years ago
The core-self is involved in the self-conceit of emotional and mental privacy. This is sponsored by the sense of identity, the intellect orb and the kundalini psyche survival mechanism. Because of this reliance on those adjuncts the self cannot detach itself from the nature-assigned default position.
To enjoy those facilities provided by the adjuncts one has to agree to become a chained captive in the psyche, which most meditators mistake for the self. Just as we identify strongly with our iPhones, mac computers, Mercedes Benz cars, designer clothes and the rest, so within the psyche we identify strongly with the adjuncts because these help to offset the insecurity of the spiritual self.
Alfredo 5 years ago
If I may add, just in case it helps.
Sri Aurobindo defined the soul of man in a masterful way as the Psychic Being. This, in my opinion, is Michael's Core-Self.
So, this is the entity that reincarnates, it is our individuality, it goes with us, and every time a new entity is formed, it takes from the Pranic (vital), from the mental (mind), and from the physical (material) and forms the new entity around it, including a subtle body.
That's why - and using Sri Aurobindo's original names to make it more real - John Smith from London does not reincarnate as Piyusha Kantha Ghose from Bengal.
This is very close to those who say "one soul. one life" as St. Paul because, verily, each new person is almost unique, but for that core-self or psychic being.
Now, how this entity experiences reality? Imagine a computer hard drive, it works with zeros and ones, and knows nothing of Word, Excel, etc, but the latter programs cannot manifest unless a certain combination of zeros and ones occur, thus the Psychic Being takes experiences in Karmic Language, quite different from our surface experience, thus it may decide on a course of action that could be, at first, very baffling, because it is "what he needs".
Now, this psychic being is not the Atma, be careful, but of the same substance.
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Continued from above…
unlimitedsun 5 years ago
Certainly! Anyone may add to their heart’s content.
Alfredo wrote:
Sri Aurobindo defined the soul of man in a masterful way as the Psychic Being. This, in my opinion, is Michael's Core-Self.
unlimitedsun's reply:
If I may speculate: The core-self and the psychic may be even further distinguished. The psychic being may be more akin to the subtle body's, storage of emotions, impressions, proclivities...elements which the core-self would require its usual apparatus to access, they are otherwise distinct from it.
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Alfredo wrote:
So, this is the entity that reincarnates, it is our individuality, it goes with us, and every time a new entity is formed, it takes from the Pranic (vital), from the mental (mind), and from the physical (material) and forms the new entity around it, including a subtle body.
unlimitedsun's reply:
Typically the subtle body itself, vastly impregnated with the agenda of the life-force is more so involved in the technicality of reincarnation than the core-self. But I guess Sri Aurobindo's approach is even more different.
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Alfredo wrote:
Now, this psychic being is not the Atma, be careful, but of the same substance.
unlimitedsun's reply:
If the core-self is accepted as the psychic being, then it may be of a different substance than the atma. Well, then it is a question of definition.
I can see the difficulty in amalgamating different approaches.
Alfredo 5 years ago
Surya Ji!
Thanks for your thoughtful answer.
unlimitedsun wrote:
[If I may speculate: The core-self and the psychic may be even further distinguished. The psychic being may be more akin to the subtle body's, storage of emotions, impressions, proclivities...elements which the core-self would require its usual apparatus to access, they are otherwise distinct from it.]
Alfredo's reply:
The Psychic Being of Sri Aurobindo is of the same essence as the Atma, just a portion of it that carries our individuality as humans...I have a question for you? Who/what supports the subtle body? Does the subtle body exists by itself? How does it manifest? What props it up? All the storages you speak of are not carried by the subtle body, but the subtle body is a manifestation of them. Do you think the subtle body is an individual entity that stays in the "astral" waiting to reincarnate? No. It is a continuous manifestation of the Psychic Being, now temporarily in the astral, now temporarily in the material manifestation. Sometimes in both, and then some. Although shrouded in ignorance, the essence of the Psychic Being is effulgence, perfection, continuity, eternity.
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unlimitedsun wrote:
[Typically the subtle body itself, vastly impregnated with the agenda of the life-force is more so involved in the technicality of reincarnation than the core-self. But I guess Sri Aurobindo's approach is even more different.]
Alfredo's reply:
The subtle body dances to the life force, yes. If he is involved in the technicalities of reincarnation it is only because it can do so due to the Psychic Being. Alas, there is no subtle body without it!
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unlimitedsun wrote:
If the core-self is accepted as the psychic being, then it may be of a different substance than the atma. Well, then it is a question of definition.
I can see the difficulty in amalgamating different approaches.
Alfredo's reply:
Perhaps Acharyaji can help us. If Acharyaji defines the core-self as an individuality devoid of divine essence, I will agree with you so far, but if Acharyaji ascribes to the core-self the essences I am speaking of above, then no.
A hint may be found in "Anu Gita Explained", page 236:
"In the conditioned stage the core-self misidentifies itself as its adjuncts. It feels it is the psyche; that it is the mind; that it is the emotions; that it is the urges; that it is the reasoning and memories...".
So...what is then the causal body? What is the relationship of the causal body to the core-self? If there isn't any, then the core-self would remain in the psyche of man. But there is.
unlimitedsun 5 years ago
This is great! It feels like a discourse in one of those Tibetan monasteries. You know, they repeatedly clap their hands, and take turns; enlivening!
So I go “clap!” followed by hand rolling motion.
BTW any one knows what is the purpose of that distinguished part of the Tibetan monastic discourse system? And so curiosity killed the cat.:)
Alfredo wrote:
Do you think the subtle body is an individual entity that stays in the "astral" waiting to reincarnate? No. It is a continuous manifestation of the Psychic Being, now temporarily in the astral, now temporarily in the material manifestation. Sometimes in both, and then some. Although shrouded in ignorance, the essence of the Psychic Being is effulgence, perfection, continuity, eternity.
unlimitedsun's reply:
That is the according to the interpretation of Sri Aurobindo. In my understanding so far the subtle body is not a manifestation or (perhaps an extension?) of the soul/atma. The subtle body, as well as the life force is adopted by the soul/atma so that it may experience itself. It did not originate with them, it did not produce them.
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Alfredo wrote:
The subtle body dances to the life force, yes. If he is involved in the technicalities of reincarnation it is only because it can do so due to the Psychic Being. Alas, there is no subtle body without it!
unlimitedsun's reply:
In my understanding all the components of the subtle body exist independently from the soul/atma and will continue to exist after it detaches from it/them. Just like the physical body disintegrates in its original components to be taken on by another.
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Alfredo wrote:
A hint may be found in "Anu Gita Explained", page 236:
"In the conditioned stage the core-self misidentifies itself as its adjuncts. It feels it is the psyche; that it is the mind; that it is the emotions; that it is the urges; that it is the reasoning and memories...".
unlimitedsun's reply:
So as in the case of any misidentification, it is best to leave it alone and move on (as we want to); unless if the misidentification is considered a manifestation from the original source, (here the subtle body to the psychic-being). Then we would be in a pickle!
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Alfredo wrote:
So...what is then the causal body? What is the relationship of the causal body to the core-self? If there isn't any, then the core-self would remain in the psyche of man. But there is.
unlimitedsun's reply:
The causal body I would say is closer to the soul in characteristic and not necessarily in terms of nature and substance. So that, the causal body would be comparable to Sri Aurobindo’s psychic being and not the core-self. The core-self would be in my opinion more akin to what Sri Aurobindo labeled the central being;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integral_psychology_(Sri_Aurobindo)
((Central Being is a technical term used by Sri Aurobindo to designate the transcendent and eternal spirit, as opposed to the incarnate and evolving Soul, which he calls the Psychic Being))
Found in Letters on Yoga vol.I under "Planes and Parts of Being" (pp. 265ff in the 3rd ed.)
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Alfredo wrote:
Now, this psychic being is not the Atma, be careful, but of the same substance.
unlimitedsun's reply:
In essence, like the endoplasm wraps around the nucleus (for the membrane) so does the causal body, the core-self and the psychic-being, the core-self. However, the causal body and the psychic-being appear very distinct in characteristics.
