Reincarnation Inquiry

Dear Mike,

Here is a verse in chandogya Upanishad 6.9.3:

6.9.3: ‘Whatever these creatures are here in this world, tiger or lion or wolf or boar or worm or flying insect or gadfly or mosquito, that they become again.

and in gita 8.06:

Whatever object one remembers as one leaves the body at the end of life, that object is attained. Thought of whatever object prevails during one's lifetime, one remembers only that object at the end of life and achieves it. (gita 8.06)

How do we reconcile these two verses?

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Mi~Beloved’s Response

Bhavam does not mean thought. First translate Gita correctly it means the psychology of the person, its psychological profile, not what it think it is or anything like that

See my translation

Moreover, whatever texture of existence is recalled when a person abandons his body in the end, to that same type of life, he is projected, O son of Kunti, always being transformed into that status of life. (Bhagavad Gita 8.6)

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Ramanand’s Inquiry:

so the last part of the translation:

......Thought of whatever object prevails during one's lifetime, one remembers only that object at the end of life and achieves it. (Gita 8.06)

Seems to be what you say?

Now, how can a man become a worm in the next life?

but chandogya seems to refute the theory of transmigration?

Mi~Beloved’s Reply

Bharat the son of Rishabha was drawn into deer embryo because he was beginning to imitate the behavior of a pet deer which he had. So it is very dangerous to imitate or to deliberately do things which other species naturally do.

like for instance in the USA in Texas they eat roast beef but they like it to be barely cooked so that some blood comes out of it when you cut it, so that is dangerous because it could lead to developing a taste for blood which is natural for top predators like lions and tiger who lick that up as being very tasty

We also know that many Asian people eat fish but some of them do not cook it fully and some even eat it raw. That is dangerous because it could lead to taking birth in a species which eats raw fish like other bigger fish or bears

Thus if we have habits which other species specialize in, we may be drawn into a birth opportunity to exhibit those tendencies to the maximum

But it is not only eating, any other type of intellectual quality even can cause a lower birth

For instance if you see sea birds by the beach, they walk or fly up and down with one thing on the mind which is to catch sea creatures. This means they are thinking day and night about how to catch fish etc. So if a human being is also thinking like that, then he or she might be attracted to the bird forms which do that all the time

This is how we are drawn into other species

So it is not what you think of at the time or death or what you chant about. That has little or nothing to do with it. Suppose I am a fisherman and I spent my life thinking of how to net fishes because that was my livelihood, then chanting Ram Ram at the time of death cannot reverse my mental content-habit which is to think of fish

Therefore bhavam in the Gita verse cannot be what I think. It has to mean my general demeanor, my general mental and emotional content energy. That will dictate where I will go.

Of course if that general content was Ram, then sure if I say Ram then that will reflect what will happen to me but if the general content was something else it will not do so

There is a story in the Mahabharata where Dhritarashtra asked Vidura about the efficacy of chanting mantras. Dhritarashtra had some doubts about the effects of it. Vidura avoided answering it and he called Sanat Sujatiya instead, who explained that Chanting does not work like people think and it cannot be exploited. He used some example saying that just as bird fly away from a bush if a noise happens in it or if it is shaken, so the effects of chanting which are given in the books fly away from a person who is badly motivated in any way.

A person can chant what he wants to chant and believe whatever he feels to believe but in the final analysis, his tendencies will determine where he will go at the time of death. That and that alone.

I can chant Hare Krishna, or Ram Ram as much as I want but if my behavior is asuric openly or if my behavior is asuric in a covered way, then that chanting of Rama is cosmetic only and won’t give the desired results.

There are stories about people who chanted at death like the famous story of Ajamila, but what people fail to do is to follow up on the story, where Ajamil was not delivered when he Vishnudhuts saved him from doing to hell. He had to take another birth(s) and clean up his behavior. All they did was to save him from going to hell immediately. He did not go to Vaikuntha after they saved him, but some devotees and pandits assume that he did even though there is no statement that says so in the Puranas.

Ajamila was saved because he had done pious things under the guidance of his parents early on and also in his past life, it was not just because he said Narayana (the name of his son- God's namesake). Thinking that without his background one can get a Vishnudhuta to come to one's aid at the time of death just by saying Narayana is nonsense. But devotees and pandits sell that to stupid people.

Ajamila was to go to hell because of abusing himself as a trained cultured Brahmin, but instead he was given the change to reform himself. That is like when a person is spared jail but is given a fine and probation. It is not that he just got away like that. God or God's agents (Vishnudhutas) are not stupid and they know very well that unless we sincerely reform, we will again resume our bad habits and do nonsense in God's creation.

We also know deep down in our hearts that unless we get serious, we will just misuse whatever grace the Eternal grants us. In all honesty we know that we have to really change deeply or the whole thing about being devotees is a sham.

Jai Sri Krishna!

I dont care about what the Chandogya says

The situation is that if you develop the tendencies of another species while you are in one species, say for instance the human one, then your subtle body will become adapted to that other species because of the tendencies developed and then you will be drawn into a birth to get that other life form.

The subtle body can be adapted to any one of the species and it does so through tendencies.

I cannot help you with supporting or refuting the Chandogya

Sorry about that

Ramananda:

Thanks for educating me.

You said......

......if you see sea birds by the beach, they walk or fly up and down with one thing on the mind which is to catch sea creatures. This means they are thinking day and night about how to catch fish etc. So if a human being is also thinking like that, then he or she might be attracted to the bird forms which do that all the time.

Then what happens to the bird after death. Does he go back to human form?

Mi~Beloved:

He goes back to the human form if during the bird body he did not get so accustomed to that life style that he became satisfied with it

the case of Bharat is there where after one deer species he returned to the human form but while as a deer it is said that he used to go to the ashram of the yogis and he would try to eat the leaves of their palm leaf books trying to read Vedic literature.

Sometimes one does not return after just one birth in that lower species because of becoming too occupied with its habits

It also depends on the exposure one gets to that higher species. If during the descent to a lower species one does not see the higher species, then one may not get the idea of that type of life and one will remain in the lower form

Some of it is just pure good luck

pets of humans get to see humans all the time and so they are likely to want to be like humans but non-pets may not have the ideas of human life and thus are condemned usually to repeated births in lower species because that is all they were exposed to

Ramananda:

your wisdom....subtle body will become adapted to that other species because of the tendencies developed and then you will be drawn into a birth to get that other life form.

Makes my confusion removed!!

Thanks, yogi ji

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