Questions on Kriya Yoga
Meditationtime Forum Post
Date: Posted 5 years before Jul 04, 2017
MiBeloved 5 years ago
Question by Robert from Linked In:
For those of you who have returned to Yoga, how did you do it? Where are you now?
MiBeloved's Response:
If you mean return to yoga in this life after doing it in a previous life or lives?
I managed to return to it instinctly when I was about 16 years of age. Later I understood that it was a discipline from India.
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Question by Robert from Linked In: Now I am doing kriya yoga, trying to perfect the 2nd Sutra of Patanjali about yogah cittavritti nirodhah.
MiBeloved's Response:
Yogah cittavritti nirodhah means that a proficiency in yoga practice is denoted by the ability to stop the mento-emotional force to operate impulsively. The convention of this existence is that the intellect (buddhi) operates on its own as it is goaded by the sensual inputs and memory.
When a yogi can shut down this auto system and implement absolute control over the mental and emotional fluctuations, he or she is said to have accomplished yoga.
This includes the kundalini because it is the main psychic system which goads the buddhi to visualize. Kundalini is independent and wants to maintain its autonomy over the psyche. Thus the self has to come to terms with it, to make it submissive to the long ranged interest of the psyche.
Kundalini or the life force psycho-physical mechanism and buddhi or the intellect (the analytical part of the mind) are in a conspiracy to keep the self under their joint control.
Yogah cittavritti nirodhah is the statement about shattering the authority of the intellect so that even the kundalini cannot execute impulsive actions.
Of course we enjoy some of these actions, so it is not easy to clamp down on something if you are getting a pleasure from it.
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Alfredo’s Questions:
What do you mean by "Now I am doing kriya yoga"?
I know "Kriya Yoga" is mentioned by name as such twice in Patanjala. Do you know the specific use(s) there, is that what you are doing? Please explain.
"Tapah svadhyayeshvara pranidhani kriyayogah" (Second Pada; Sloka 1)
The claim by some of the "Kriya Yoga" Sampradaya of Lahiri Mahasaya that this twice-mention spell implies an acceptance in Patanjala of their practice I have never fully accepted.
Some of them even said that Kriya Yoga was the Yoga mentioned in Gita 4.1:
imaṃ vivasvate yogaṃ proktavān aham avyayam
vivasvān manave prāha manur ikṣvākavebravīt 4.1
I taught this immortal Yoga to Vivasvan (sun-god), Vivasvan conveyed to Manu (his son), and Manu to his son Ikshvaku.
This is also a tall order.
MiBeloved’s Response:
This:
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Gita 4.1:
imaṃ vivasvate yogaṃ proktavān aham avyayam
vivasvān manave prāha manur ikṣvākavebravīt 4.1
I taught this immortal Yoga to Vivasvan (sun-god), Vivasvan conveyed to Manu (his son), and Manu to his son Ikshvaku.
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is karma yoga according to the wording and definition of it in the Gita itself. It is not Kriya yoga as Krishna uses that term. In the discourse to Uddhava Krishna explained what was kriya yoga according to his definition, and it is in harmony with what you quoted from Patanjali as
"Tapah svadhyayeshvara pranidhani kriyayogah" (Second Pada; Sloka 1)
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This is the kriya yoga I practice. Portions of it are the same as the practice which became known as kriya yoga from the Lahiri Mahasaya's lineage.
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Uddhava asked Krishna about that system in this way in the 11th Canto of Srimad Bhagavatam (my translation / Uddhava Gita Explained*):
śră-uddhava uvāca
kriyā-yogaṁ samācakṣva
bhavad-ārādhanaṁ prabho
yasmāt tvāṁ ye yathārcanti
sātvatāḥ sātvatarṣabha (22.1)
śră-uddhava – the deserving Uddhava; uvāca — said; kriyā – mystic activity; yogam — yoga discipline; samācakṣva — please describe; bhavad = bhavat — your; ārādhanam — duly worship; prabho — o Lord; yasmāt — from what, on what basis; tvām — you; ye — who; yathārcanti = yathā — in what manner + arcanti — they worship; sātvatāḥ — devotees of the Sātvata clan; sātvatarṣabha — the best of the Sātvata people.
Translation:
The deserving Uddhava said: O Lord, please explain the application of yoga to mystic activity. On what basis and in what manner did the Sātvata clan devotees worship you, O leader of the clan. (22.1)
etad vadanti munayo muhur
niḥśreyasaṁ nṛṇām
nārado bhagavān vyāsa
ācāryo 'ṅgirasaḥ sutaḥ (22.2)
etad = etat — this; vadanti — they say; munayo = munayaḥ — the yogi philosopher; muhur = muhuh — repeatedly; nihśreyasam — the highest well-being; nṛṇām — for human beings; nārado = nāradaḥ — Nārada; bhagavān – divine and highly respected; vyāsa = vyāsaḥ — Vyāsa; ācāryo = ācāryaḥ — spiritual master; 'ṅgirasaḥ = aṅgirasaḥ — of Angiras; suta — the son.
The yogi philosophers such as Nārada, the divine and respected Vyāsa, and my teacher, the son of Aṅgira, repeatedly describe this as being the highest well-being for human beings. (22.2)
niḥsṛtaṁ te mukhāmbhojād
yad āha bhagavān ajaḥ
putrebhyo bhṛgu-mukhyebhyo
devyai ca bhagavān bhavaḥ (22.3)
niḥsṛtam — spoken; te — your; mukhāmbhojād = mukha – mouth; ambhojāt — from the lotus-shaped; yad = yat — which; āha — spoke; bhagavān — the lord; ajaḥ — Procreator Brahmā; putrebhyo = putrebhyaḥ — to his sons; bhṛgu – Bhṛgu; mukhyebhyo = mukhyebhyah — to those headed by; devyai — to Devi; ca — and; bhagavān – lord; bhavaḥ — Bhava Shiva
Translation:
The instruction spoke from Your lotus-shaped mouth, which the Lord Aja Brahmā spoke to his sons, who were headed by Bhṛgu and which Lord Bhava Shiva explained to the goddess Devī; (22.3)
MiBeloved 5 years ago
Alfredo replied:
Thank you very much, I know your knowledge on these matters is vast, and I appreciate your answers and your time.
MiBeloved wrote: [It is not Kriya yoga as Krishna uses that term.]
Alfredo's Reply:
Of course not, and that always bothered me that that being obvious, it is often claimed to be so by unscrupulous Acharyas within the Sampradaya I mentioned.
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MiBeloved wrote: [This is the kriya yoga I practice. Portions of it are the same as the practice which became known as kriya yoga from the Lahiri Mahasaya's lineage.]
Alfredo's Reply:
I have practiced the Lahiri Mahasaya Kriya Yoga for over 10 years, through Shriyukteshwar and Swami Hariharananda. It is Tantrik and Kundalini in essence and origin, and draws heavily from Hatha Yoga.
I have a question for you: How does this reconcile with Patanjala, which is often not regarded as within Tantra? Or no reconciliation is necessary?
Thanks in advance.
MiBeloved's Response:
The system given by Patanjali as the ashtanga yoga (8 sectioned or limbed process of psychological control and discovery) was mentioned before the time of Patanjali. It was mentioned by Krishna to Uddhava in the Uddhava Gita and in chapter 6 of the Bhagavad Gita it is given in brief in Krishna explanation of what yoga practice was during his time. In chapter two of the Gita, Krishna explained what he termed as buddhi yoga (or the application of yoga process for control of the buddhi intellect organ).
If one checks closely in the Bhagavad Gita, one will find verses which describe the same system enumerated by Patanjali but the real place to find it is in the Uddhava Gita.
To reconcile Patanjali to the Kriya lineage which ran through Lahiri Mahasaya Mahayogin, one has to strip away the sectarian branding of the systems and regard yoga as just a science. For instance there is a book called Taoist Yoga in which Charles Lux describes a system of yoga from China. If you look at that you will find that there are similarities in reference to the layout of the human psyche.
Patanjali’s special contribution is that he just gives the bare bones of the thing, the strip-down. You take a man and you peel off his skin and then his skin color will not matter because everywhere you will see blood oozing out. Patanjali did that to yoga process by just laying it out bare without the sectarian claims and biases. The value of these claims is that they specialize in a certain part of the process but Patanjali gave the whole curriculum.
This same curriculum was laid out by Gorakshnath in one of his books but he left out the two preliminary stages of yama and niyama for reasons that he did not declare.
There was however a misunderstanding which occurred in the Lahiri sampradaya and that is the idea that you just need to be in the lineage and then everything will work tit for tat. This is misleading. For Westerners this has become their problem because what has happened is that because of the reluctance of Westerners to do pranayama practice for hours on end, sitting in lotus posture, Gurujis beginning with Sri Paramhansa Yogananda have either hidden that as part of the practice or told students that they just need to be in the lineage and that would take care of it.
This is downright wrong and is a terrible injustice but the Western students are partially at fault for exerting such a strong reluctance to practice the pranayama process. They feel they should just sit and meditate and see light, etc and also be self realized without having to do all those long hours of pranayama which the ancient yogis did. Due to that the kriya lineage has broke off from the Patanjali ashtanga yoga and is pushing itself all over the world with a fragmented system which the Westerns use while adding visualization as the replacement for pranayama practice. This is to be regretted but it is history now.
Having a guru cannot replace the practice of the appropriate pranayama but that has passed in the lineage now as the standard. Just to say that I am in the lineage of the Lahiri Baba indicates that a student is already self realized, and this is the bane of Western kriya practice. It is a farce.
MiBeloved 5 years ago
Jivana Kennedy to Michael,
Would you be open to describing the state that such pranayama practice has created within you?
Respectfully,
Jivana
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Robert Pryde wrote: Brilliant Michael. That was definitely Sri Swami Satyananda's position, to me anyway. And certainly my understanding when I was cataloging the texts in the library at Bihar School of Yoga. Part of my approach to having a guru is to try to understand and get to the roots of what motivates him, then do the fine tuning through sadhana (You've accurately pinpointed the importance of pranayama). It is not a passive process and definitely not a Cargo Cult. In the words of William Burroughs, "Today's easy passage may be tomorrow's death trap", (Road to the Western Lands).
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Continued from above…
My answer to Jivana's question would be an. I have responsibility in that process. I keep seeing it manifest in clients, so I keep up the sadhana.
But there's LOTS of room for improvement !
MiBeloved’s Response:
Robert,
That was cryptic your statement of:
unfolding awareness of energy which is modified for the benefit of others
For me I would say the same thing with an explanation that the modification for the benefit of others, is that when you are doing the practice there is this sense of responsibility which naturally arises and in it, there is this need to observe what the unfolding awareness of energy is doing, as to how it is changing the energy in the psyche or using Patanjali’s terminology as to how it is changing the chittavritti.
This is important because one can do pranayama not have that benefit-for-others energy affecting one, in which case one will leave no record of the practice behind, one will explain it to no one and in fact one might progress without ever knowing how that took place. Then one will have to describe the progression as being the infinite, the indescribable, the inconceivable, the Absolute, the Void, the Colorless nothing ness and so on.
I learnt meditation first from Authur Beverford. He was a disciple of Rishi Singh Gherwal. Rishi was a master yogin, a contemporary of Paramhansa Yogananda. He lived in Santa Barbara, California. Beverford did not practice pranayama to proficiency and therefore he taught meditation in the Western way which is to sit, focus on the third eye or some other focus and just be mentally silent.
I did this for some time but found that it was stagnant and did not really penetrate into the psyche much. Later I learned the bhastrika pranayama method which Yogi Bhajan taught around 1972. That was super because on a daily basis I could raise kundalini and guide it through sushumna into the head. Meditation after doing this is totally different. The subtle body once it is infused by bhastrika or kapala bhati, changes in configuration. There is increased psyche perception, opening of third eye, realization of the buddhi analytic psychic organ and other features.
I found over time that sitting to meditate was a waste of time if breath infusion into the subtle body was not done before hand. Then it made sense why Patanjali listed pranayama as happening before pratyahar and samyama.
In a word, pranayama practice changes the energy level of the subtle body, causing it to jump to higher planes and to be in harmony with higher levels of awareness.
In terms of sutra number 2 of Patanjali which states:
Yogah cittavritti nirodhah
pranayama practice achieves that by energizing the buddhi intellect organ and changing the attitude of the troublesome mischievous downward-bent kundalini, so that the buddhi stops (nirodhah) the cittavritti operations.
It has made me realize that there is only one organ which operates the chittavrittis and that is the buddhi organ and this is why in Chapter 2, the first thing Krishna began teaching Arjuna was buddhi yoga.
Kundalini is involved to be sure but it cannot create the mental effect or vrittis without the assistance of the buddhi intellect. Thus if the intellect is energized, then the operations ceases at the stage of pranayama and one automatically is transferred into the stage of pratyahar and that causes interiorization of the sensual energies which results in the samyama sequence as explained by Patanjali.
For me meditation without first doing pranayama is for misinformed people who have missed the boat of the real ashtanga yoga. But hey, to each his own. Whatever you feel works, let it work for you.
Here is what I do for meditation:
Do breath infusion (Bhastrika or Kapala bhati pranayama) to force down prana into the subtle body down the front part of that body from the lungs down into the pubic area.
Once it reaches the pubic area, I forced it further to jump over to muladhara chakra which is the home-base of kundalini.
This causes kundalini to move under the stress of the surcharged energy accumulated by the pranayama.
Kundalini is directed up the spine into the head.
I then return into the trunk of the subtle body and infuse the prana into various parts of it, while this is done I extract all the apana energy from the subtle body.
When this is achieved, I move into the head of the subtle body and infuse the various parts of it, beginning with the area above the neck, the back of the head, the middle of the head and then the front of the head.
After this I return to the trunk of the body and cause kundalini to fire into the trunk of the body rather than just up the sushumna passage. This makes sure that all of the subtle body is free from the apana negative energy.
Immediately after this I sit to meditate.
I do not sit to meditate unless I have done pranayama immediately before sitting.
MiBeloved 5 years ago
Alfredo wrote:
Michael, thanks:
MiBeloved wrote: [For Westerners this has become their problem because what has happened is that because of the reluctance of Westerners to do pranayama practice for hours on end, sitting in lotus posture]
Alfredo's Reply:
This is very important, I once wanted to open this Pranayama line here, but was reluctant. Although you can do this without being in Lotus posture, which is very difficult for many.
That you know this to be the key in this case, does not surprise me.
Now, I have studied the letters to and from disciples of Lahiri Mahasaya himself (rare book that I can send in pdf file to anyone upon request). In this book I learned that a few of his earlier disciples extended the 2nd Kriya Pranayama exercises (that was taught to me by Swami Hariharanandaji, which consists of an intricate Chakra pranayama interlaced with a Mantra with extended Kumbhaka in the middle) to over 1,500 cycles at one time.
Quoting a disciple letter from the book: A couple of days after coming here I did 1728 pranayams as per your instructions (A Patanjali number, 144 x 12 = Samadhi). I started at eight in the morning and ended at eight at night. It was all a little fast.
Now, I do 144 cycles of this Pranayama (Patanjali too 12 x 12), and it takes me approximately 1 hour and 10 minutes. This disciple did 12 hours, so 1748/12 = 145/hour which closely matches my experience.
Also, Sri Aurobindo, while in Baroda and before taking up Yoga per se, did 6 to 8 hours of Pranayama daily for about a year. Specific experiences occurred to him, some of which, to a lesser extend, match those that occurred to me when I started the 144 practice. I have occasionally extended the number above 144. I do not have a problem elaborating upon the experience I obtained from this practice of Pranayama, but would like for you to take the lead.
Please elaborate on Pranayama, as Jivana asked you. This is extremely important.
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Alfredo wrote: "Now, I have studied the letters to and from disciples of Lahiri Mahasaya himself (rare book that I can send in Word to anyone upon request). In this book I learned that a few of his earlier disciples extended the 2nd Kriya Pranayama exercises (that was taught to me by Swami Hariharanandaji, which consists of an intricate Chakra pranayama interlaced with a Mantra with extended Kumbhaka in the middle) to over 1,500 cycles at one time."
Jivana’ Reply:
So, can a person who doesn't know Sanskrit or Hindi understand it?
If so, please send...
