Questions for Michael

Meditationtime Forum Post

Date:  Posted 3 years before Apr 28, 2016

Alfredo 3 years ago

Michael!

May I bother you for a few questions?

Who is Lord Krishna?

How did he come to be?

What is his relationship to God or Brahman...or is this relationship not possible to be established?

Why do you call Him the Supreme Person or Supreme Being?

Does he have an abode?

Thanks in advance.

MiBeloved 3 years ago

Alfredo Query: Who is Lord Krishna?

MiBeloved’s Response:

I am assuming that you will take these answers at face value. For objective proof to this there are three evidences:

·        Literary Evidence

·        Witness Evidence

·        Direct Sensual Perception

These three are the traditional means of getting evidence but the last one, direct sensual perception is the one that is really convincing. This means that until you get that, you will have to abide by the others according to your degree of confidence in those sources.

Literary evidence is given in three primary sources, which are the Mahabharata and the Bhagavata Purana and the Vishnu Purana. The Bhagavata Purana is also known as the Srimad Bhagavatam.

Here is how to approach these three literatures:

First to find out about the life of Krishna, about what he did, read the Bhagavata Purana, the entire text, but focusing on Canto 10 which is where it specifies Krishna.

Then read the Mahabharata which is centralized on the Pandavas but which shows how Krishna interacted with those heroes and with some others.

The Vishnu Purana is a complimentary text. Its value is that it gives insight into the history of how Krishna came to be regarded as the Supreme Person. It used to be that Vishnu, who was also called Narayana (Naa –rai-an-a) was rated as the Supreme Person. Under that system of belief, Krishna was rated as an incarnation of Narayana. But then as things developed and there was more information, Krishna was identified as both Narayana and as the source of the Narayana Personalities.

Translating to English, this means the Godhead Personalities. The Vishnu Purana was penned as the history goes by Parashara Muni who was the father of the person who penned the Bhagavata Purana and the Mahabharata. This person is Krishna Dvaipayana Vyasa.

In a summary, that literary evidence from those three sources point to Krishna as the Supreme Person of the Divine beings. Srila Bhaktivedanta Prabhupada in the lineage which passed through Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati used the terms that Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This term was perhaps first used like that in English by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati, his guru.

Each student should read these three literatures and make up the mind as to what one wants to accept. It is a personal decision if one is to accept these literatures.

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The second type of evidence, the witness evidence, means that you get some word from someone who has seen this Krishna acting as the Supreme Person. So if you can reach someone who has done that and if you have faith in that person, then you can accept that person’s word for it and listen to the experiences that person may have had which cause the conviction.

This is not easy evidence to come by and to request it or demand it is a sort of insanity. Here is why. Let us say that your father is the President of the United States. Then how easy would it be for you to explain to others that he is that. What have you seen him do that proved that?

You might think that if a person has some conviction of Krishna as the Supreme Person it would be easy for that person to convince another person but it is not that easy, just as a child of the President might fumble around trying to prove to someone that his or her father is the ruler of the country.

Personal evidence is based on trust in someone and that trust might be shaky.

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The third type of evidence is direct sensual perception. Actually there is a verse in the Gita which praises this method as the final method. If you get that then you will be convinced obviously but wait that is not necessarily the case.

Duryodhana saw the Universal Form of Krishna, the same form which was shown to Arjuna on the battlefield later, and Duryodhana was not convinced. So even if one gets that sort of evidence, we have heard already that one might not be convinced. It convinced Arjuna.

And then there is a bigger issue with this, which is that the God might not provide one with such an opportunity. As great and as precious a devotee as Arjuna was denied the privilege of viewing the Universal form after the battle when things were going good for him and his brothers.

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But you asked me a direct question as to who is Krishna. I can only say that the books mentioned acclaim him as the Supreme Person. Personally I have seen Krishna and to me he is the most beautiful and attractive person. From an existential position, he is the person from whom all these persons whom we interact with originated but not necessarily directly but mostly through proxy agents or pre-lords.

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Alfredo Query: How did he come to be?

MiBeloved’s Response:

Krishna’s existence is on-going so there is no generation of his existence or formation of it.

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Alfredo Query: What is his relationship to God or Brahman...or is this relationship not possible to be established?

MiBeloved’s Response:

I do not understand the meaning of the terms God or Brahman in this usage. Please stop using these words in this vague way. Instead of these words say what you actually mean by these words and then I can answer the question.

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Alfredo Query: Why do you call Him the Supreme Person or Supreme Being?

MiBeloved’s Response:

Supreme Person in my usage means the ultimate personality, the person with the most veto power, the source of all the other personalities who is exponentially always greater, never to be superseded by anyone else. He is an individual entity and not a mergence, void or spatial totality.

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Alfredo Query: Does he have an abode?

MiBeloved’s Response:

He has an abode, yes.

Here is the verse about direct sensual perception from the Bhagavad Gita:

न हि ज्ञानेन सदृशं

पवित्रमिह विद्यते ।

तत्स्वयं योगसंसिद्धः

कालेनात्मनि विन्दति ॥४.३८॥

na hi jñānena sadṛśaṁ

pavitramiha vidyate

tatsvayaṁ yogasaṁsiddhaḥ

kālenātmani vindati (4.38)

na — nothing; hi — indeed; jñānena — with direct experience; sadṛśaṁ — compared with; pavitram — purifier; iha — in this world; vidyate — is relevant; tat — that realization; svayaṁ — himself; yogasaṁsiddhaḥ = yoga — yoga practice + saṁsiddhaḥ— perfected; kālenātmani = kālena — in time + ātmani — in the self; vindati — he locate

Nothing, indeed, can be compared with direct experience. No other purifier is as relevant in this world. That man who himself is perfected in yoga practice, will in time, locate the realization in himself. (4.38)

श्रद्धावाँल्लभते ज्ञानं

तत्परः संयतेन्द्रियः ।

ज्ञानं लब्ध्वा परां शान्तिम्

अचिरेणाधिगच्छति ॥४.३९॥

śraddhāvāllabhate jñānaṁ

tatparaḥ saṁyatendriyaḥ

jñānaṁ labdhvā parāṁ śāntim

acireṇādhigacchati (4.39)

śraddhāvān — one who has faith; labhate — he gets; jñānaṁ — the experience; tatparaḥ = tad — that + paraḥ — being devoted to; saṁyatendriyaḥ = saṁyata — restraining + indriyaḥ — sensual energy; jñānaṁ — experience; labdhvā — having acquired; parāṁ — supreme; śāntim — peace; acireṇādhigacchati = acireṇa — quickly + adhigacchati — goes

One who has faith, gets the experience. Being devoted to restraining the sensual energy, having acquired the experience, he goes quickly to the supreme peace. (4.39)

So some faith is required for sure!