Pranayama Comparison

Meditationtime Forum Post

Date:  Posted 5 years before May 08, 2018

MiBeloved 5 years ago

Raj Kumarji on LinkedIn:

Michael Thanks for giving the detailed information about the ' breath infusion '.

I am familiar with the 'fast breathing' techniques and have also experimented with this for using it for 'mind cleansing' in our BMP ( body mind programming ) with good results, there We have followed Bhastika Pranayam with four speed variations - slow, medium, fast and very fast' as advocated by Sri Sri Ravishankar Ji of Art of Living ( first few minutes or for about 24 times slow speed, then medium for a few minutes and then fast and then very fast ( few minutes ) ; this makes one cycle and a few cycles or repeated. This opens up the Subconscious mind and stored emotions burst out.

Fast Kapal Bhati is being used by many for Kundalini Awakening, therefore, it is to be used very carefully under supervision of the teacher/guru as adverse effects are noticed ( I have seen people's BP rising quite high, pulse rate rising etc). Michael I would like to know your experience in this regard.

My Spiritual Guru taught me Anulom Vilom Pranayam with very fast speed and I find this quite effective for quietening the mind, Michael have you tried this and if yes what is your experience.

Fast breathing Pranayam have many merits but these Techniques are not mentioned in the books on yoga or Pranayam probably these are to be learned from the experienced gurus only to avoid the adverse effects.

My dear friend Alfredo I love you, unconditional love, pure love. With best wishes and Greetings.

MiBeloved's Response:

In relation to the Art of Living system, just yesterday I was hearing some details about that process from Lalji Patel, who teaches in that group and who is currently visiting some of his family here in the USA in Mobile Alabama. I particularly questioned him to get some insight into how they are doing the Patanjali pratyahar achievement.

Lalji, some years back assisted his brother in law, Bharata Patel, who helped me to publish a commentary on Bhagavad Gita under the title of Bhagavad Gita in Its Own Time and Place. That is now available as Bhagavad Gita Explained in paperback.

I have seen Lalji’s son Jigar, do the process of breath infusion used by the Art of Living and also some of his cousins who recently returned from Rishikesh India where they took a course there.

This system is the same system. I do it more intensely, more aggressively and with more focus. When they see me do it, they are astonished at the force and focus. But that is no surprise because I was doing this since around 1973. I learnt it first from Yogi Harbhajan Singh.

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Regarding Anulom Vilom Pranayam, do not be offended by what I say and also do not feel that I want you to comply with anything I say. I do write some pretty outlandish things on occasion as you well know. This may cause someone to think that I am trying to influence. That is not a fact because I really do not care to influence anyone. The person whom I have to influence is myself. That is the big challenge. Influencing others is a game but influencing the self is the real accomplishment. Changing the habits of the self, reforming the self from spiritual self-destructive behaviors and methods is the real accomplishment. The self itself is the biggest opponent of the self. It is the self itself which keeps the self in the gutter and without spiritual insight. It is an internal struggle between the self and its adjuncts. That itself is a political power struggle on the internal level.

I learnt Anulom Vilom Pranayam from Arthur Beverford in 1973 in Ventura California, USA when he returned from the Philippines. He was teaching it under the authority of Rishi Singh Gherwal, a yoga master who was a contemporary of Sri Paramhamsa Yogananda. Beverford showed me what Rishi taught him and gave the ideal 1:4:2 ratio method.

I practiced this and struggled with it. I made a little progress but it was haphazard. I found that it was difficult to hold the count and then when I would lose the count or a part of the count, I had to start over a cycle, this would happen repeatedly.

In the meantime, I learnt the bhastrika system from Yogi Bhajan and when I showed that to Beverford, he was not inclined to it. He thought it was too aggressive in comparison. Rishi explained bhastrika in one of his books but he did not teach it to his Western disciples.

After this I made my own evaluation after once doing the bhastrika and then doing the Anulom Vilom Pranayam immediately after. I found then that I could keep the count because the infusion of energy from the bhastrika put the mind on a totally different level of consciousness and remove the apana energy which caused a mental influence which shattered focus on the count otherwise.

My opinion is that the bhastrika by itself is enough but it has to be done in various postures so as to target various parts of the subtle body, to reach the nadis and hidden energy pockets in various parts. Then one achieves the pratyahar 5th state in one lick and can proceed with samyama. However with samyama one has to take help from naad in order to reach the chit akash, at which stage success is reached.

If one does the Anulom Vilom Pranayam only then one has to do it for about 2 hours to get the same result. That is what I found out.

Is anyone in agreement with this?

That does not matter.

If someone can do it and get the result in five minutes, then all the merrier for us, that someone achieved pratyahar and can do samyama that quickly.

Right now by the grace of Srila Yogeshwarananda and also by the mercy of guruji Lahiri, I am able to reach chit akash by a confidence process which I could have done for years now but which I did not discover on my own and was groping in the dark about. Due to their mercy, I got a technique from them in how to reach chit akash even when the core-self is enclosed in dense energy as described in the Gita in this verse:

धूमेनाव्रियते वह्निर्

यथादर्शो मलेन च ।

यथोल्बेनावृतो गर्भस्

तथा तेनेदमावृतम् ॥३.३८॥

dhūmenāvriyate vahnir

yathādarśo malena ca

yatholbenāvṛto garbhas

tathā tenedamāvṛtam (3.38)

dhūmenāvriyate = dhūmena — by smoke + āvriyate — is obscured; vahnir = vahniḥ — the sacrificial fire; yathā — similarly; 'darśo = ādarśaḥ — mirror; malena — with dust; ca — and; yatholbenāvṛto = yatholbenāvṛtaḥ = yatho (yatha) — similarly + ulbena — by skin + āvṛtaḥ — is covered; garbhaḥ — embryo; tathā — so; tenedam = tena — by this + idam — this; āvṛtam — is blocked

As the sacrificial fire is obscured by smoke, and similarly as a mirror is shrouded by dust or as an embryo is covered by skin, so a man's insight is blocked by the passionate energy. (3.38)

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From Juile on LinkedIn:

MiBeloved wrote: "As the sacrificial fire is obscured by smoke, and similarly as a mirror is shrouded by dust or as an embryo is covered by skin, so a man's insight is blocked by the passionate energy."

Juile’s comment: I think what I am picking up on your comments as well as other posts is that we need to control our passions as they can and do, obscure our way to higher levels of consciousness? So in order to be able to progress to higher states, we need to control our passions and desire. In what way is desire different from passion? I think this is important in this question of who owns our body. I think we need to own our passions and desires and to not let them own us. What are your thoughts?

MiBeloved's Response:

Julie,

In the Bhagavad Gita passion is the median energy zone. The other two zones are the clarity zone, sattva guna, and the inertia stupor zone which is tama guna. Desire is a productive force which can use any of these gunas individually or in combination. For instance when I was drowsy, there was the desire to sleep, and then that desire was confiscated by the inertia stupor zone, tama guna.

When I had sex desire, there was a desire for a partner. Then the desire was confiscated by the passionate force, raja guna.

Desire may be dormant, manifested or fulfilled according to how it was or was not facilitated by providence. Jim wanted a hamburger but he was in an ashram where meat products were not allowed. So the desire went into dormancy.  Two days before he was in a modern city, where he ate one to his satisfaction. Thus the desire was fulfilled. But later Jim escaped from the ashram, went downtown and ate one. Thus the desire was manifested.

Own our desires and passions!!!!!!

A great proposition-----

Let us do it!

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Julie on LinkedIn:

I need to learn more of what these terms mean. I have yoga books and have to look at them again and see what they explain. Interesting how passion is the median energy zone. I have just recently come to realize that our passions and desires can become out of control and rule us if they have been suppressed and we don't get a grip on them. So it is important to know them, to bring them to light out of the depths of our darkest places. When it is mentioned passion is the median energy zone, could this be the gateway to higher consciousness, if dealt with that is conducive for our evolution? When our deepest desires are suppressed they can eventually turn against us, as they can manifest in ways we might not be able to handle at the time. So for instance when a dormant desire comes up, the stupor zone takes command of the desire, making it difficult for us to control it? This is the way we take ownership of our bodies.

MiBeloved's Response:

Julie,

Regarding your statement:

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I have just recently come to realize that our passions and desires can become out of control and rule us if they have been suppressed and we don't get a grip on them. So it is important to know them, to bring them to light out of the depths of our darkest places.

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You may find something said by Krishna to be of interest:

आवृतं ज्ञानमेतेन

ज्ञानिनो नित्यवैरिणा ।

कामरूपेण कौन्तेय

दुष्पूरेणानलेन च ॥३.३९॥

āvṛtaṁ jñānametena

jñānino nityavairiṇā

kāmarūpeṇa kaunteya

duṣpūreṇānalena ca (3.39)

āvṛtam — is adjusted; jñānam — discernment; etena — by this; jñānino = jñāninaḥ — educated people; nityavairiṇā = nitya — eternal + vairiṇā — by the enemy; kāmarūpeṇa = kāma — yearning for various things + rūpeṇa — by the sense or form of; kaunteya — son of Kuntī; duṣpūreṇānalena = duspūreṇa — is hard to satisfy + analena — by fire; ca — and

The discernment of educated people is adjusted by their eternal enemy which is the sense of yearning for various things. O son of Kuntī, the lusty power, is as hard to satisfy as it is to keep a fire burning. (3.39)

इन्द्रियाणि मनो बुद्धिर्

अस्याधिष्ठानमुच्यते ।

एतैर्विमोहयत्येष

ज्ञानमावृत्य देहिनम् ॥३.४०॥