Naad as Cittavritti Replacement
Meditationtime Forum Post
Date: Posted 3 years before Jun 28, 2016
MiBeloved 3 years ago
Patanjali instructed for the removal of cittavritti but in his texts there is no instruction for replacing it with anything else. So is it supposed to be blank?
Patanjali does state that there will be several samadhis if one masters samyama meditation which is the three higher phases of yoga as one sequential practice.
This morning astrally, without seeing Srila Yogeshwarananda, I got an instruction from him, a note-energy that he left in my psyche for the replacement of cittavritti activity with naad. He also left a notation that light seen in the mind at this time should be ignored.
The light which appeared was like snow clouds filled with light particles. These clouds would appear, stay for a few seconds or for a few minutes and then disappear. Some seem to want to be encouraged to be seen but since I got the instruction from Yogesh, I did not offer any energy of interest to these apparitions. Instead I put the investment of energy into naad being in the frontal part of the head where the cittavritti idea agitations usually occur.
First of all to do this practice, one should master adherence to naad in the back of the head. It should be that one already spent hours in many meditation sessions reaching naad in the head and entering into the deep resonance of naad vibration or sound.
This should be mastered to the extent that the frontal part of the head became blank during the naad meditations and no thought-ideas arose during the meditation session. There should be no struggle with thoughts, no observation of thoughts and no flashing of thought energy.
The state of mind should be such that you were on a level where the thought-idea apparatus did not operate. There was no need for observation, neglect or suppression of thoughts.
Initially when this is mastered, the student will have to remain with naad in the back of the head for success, otherwise as soon as the core-self moves forward in the head, the cittavritti thought-idea operations will begin in earnest. As this practice matures, the student will find that in moving forward, this stops and the frontal part of the head remains blank of ideas. It appears that the buddhi psychic mechanism which used to manufacture the thoughts is completely absent from the mind.
This is an indication only and not a fact. The buddhi intellect orb is still present but it is just not operating on that level.
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In this practice for this morning, Srila Yogesh instructed that I should move forward, while remaining in full contact with naad, and then I should invite naad to come forward ahead of me, to express itself exactly where the buddhi intellect orb usually is.
In terms of location, this means that the core-self is at its default location as the centralized core of consciousness. Naad is in the back in its default location, which for me is the right back side of the subtle head. The buddhi intellect orb is absent. Its thought idea activity is also absent. Third eye is up front but it is not being perceived or considered. No vision perception energy is being expressed. Naad sound is in the location of the buddhi intellect orb.
After this is done for about ten minutes, things switch and it seems that the naad sound is being absorbed by something at the location of the buddhi intellect orb. This is the signal that the orb is feeding on naad. The orb is not seen because on that level of perception it is invisible. Only its operation of feeding on naad is realized. That is how the yogi knows that it is operating.
When this feeding begins, the yogi will feel as if the blank area feeling in the frontal part of the head is lifted. There will be a psychological fulfillment feeling instead.
Then there will another development which is that clouds of frosted light will appear in the front where the third eye is located. Yogesh instructed that such light be ignored. His instruction for this was like this:
You may observe those lights but they should be ignored.
If you have an interest in them, then see them but do nothing to link attention to them. Keep attention on naad being in the frontal part of the head? If you give attention to the lights, then naad will retreat to the back of the head or it might even disappear altogether. Disregard the lights in this practice.
Alfredo 3 years ago
Michael Wrote:
[First of all to do this practice, one should master adherence to naad in the back of the head. It should be that one already spent hours in many meditation sessions reaching naad in the head and entering into the deep resonance of naad vibration or sound.]
Alfredo’s Reply:
Thanks for reminding us!
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Michael Wrote:
[This should be mastered to the extent that the frontal part of the head became blank during the naad meditations and no thought-ideas arose during the meditation session. There should be no struggle with thoughts, no observation of thoughts and no flashing of thought energy.}
Alfredo’s Reply:
I see that this can be done although I am not there yet.
I am at the level of the instruction from 3 days ago, upper part, where Naad is brought into the tunnel coming from the Buddhi organ to obliterate the thoughts. I foresee this to continue for the near future, but it is not a struggle, it is just the way it is, and actually a joy because I finally have a tool to control the thoughts. Thank you again!
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Michael Wrote:
[As this practice matures, the student will find that in moving forward, this stops and the frontal part of the head remains blank of ideas. It appears that the buddhi psychic mechanism which used to manufacture the thoughts is completely absent from the mind.}
Alfredo’s Reply:
Yes, this is the bottom part of that instruction from a few days ago. I have tried a couple of times, to see whether that lifting you spoke of would occur, but indeed the cinema show starts in earnest! So I right away run a retreat to the back of the head.
MiBeloved 3 years ago
If we accept Patanjali at face value, and also what Krishna says about quelling the mind in the Bhagavad Gita and elsewhere, then shutting down the analytical orb is possible for sure. The trouble is: Can the student actually do it? There is so much which is possible which we cannot do anyway.
Faith in the statements of Patanjali and Krishna is essential.
On the control of thoughts:
Control of thoughts is not control of thoughts. It is full reduction of interest in the location where thoughts usually occur. Once you find the usual location where thought-ideas are presented within the subtle head, your problem with thoughts is a downhill run. If you learn to stay away from that location, not to give any attention to that location, to turn your back geographically towards it, your thought control is achieved.
It is a mistake to think that control of thoughts can be attained by control of thoughts, or by observation of the same or by analysis of the value of thoughts. The reason why thoughts have a power over the student is simply that the student has an emotional interest in the thought-idea display and usually gets some pleasure from it.
Personal pleasure is a form of self-conceit. The sooner one gets to understand this, the more control one will have over thoughts. In ice-cream there is sugar. If you run an ice-cream shop, then it won’t prosper if every kid in the neighbor is trained to be satisfied with sugarless foods.
To break the grip on thoughts, one has to admit to oneself their value, just as the child has to realize that it is the sugar which is the hypnotic ingredient in the ice-cream. Once the student sees that he or she has an emotional interest in thoughts, the question is left as to if the student can make the decision to forego that emotional satisfaction.
If the student can safely, without hankering, abandon that, then the power of thoughts will be broken and the helpless attraction to thoughts will go away.
But again it is a matter of location. If a particular child realizes that sugar is the cause of the addiction to ice-cream that does not mean that the realization will be effective. Many students think that once they grasp something intellectually, the battle is over. But this is totally untrue
Understanding takes place in the brain of the child directly based on sensual evidence and analytical process, but tasting occurs in the mouth which is a different organ. The mouth has no intention of abandoning its interest, merely because the brain has some hot idea about the evils of sugar intake.
Understanding that the self derives some satisfaction from the emotions which arise through the display of thoughts, does not in any way shut down the need for that pleasure.
Thus the student has to come up with a practical plan so as to convince the self to forego the emotions which it derives from the expressions of thoughts and ideas.
This means not going to the location where thoughts are displayed.
So long as the tongue likes sugar which it will do forever, the child has no chance of curbing the ice-cream habit except by not going to the ice-cream shop. Similarly the self has to learn how not to go to the location where the intellect orb operates thoughts and ideas.
If this is done consistently for a time, then the student will live to see the day that when sitting to meditate, the display of thoughts just do not arise.
In other words if the kid stops going to the ice-cream shop for about 5 or 6 years, a time will come when he or she can go to the shop and will feel no craving whatsoever and in fact, it will be like there is no shop there because of the lack of excitement about the sugar-derived pleasure.
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Alfredo Wrote:
Yes, this is the bottom part of that instruction from a few days ago. I have tried a couple of times, to see whether that lifting you spoke of would occur, but indeed the cinema show starts in earnest! So I right away run a retreat to the back of the head.
MiBeloved’s Response:
Discretion, the saying goes, is the better part of valor. Honesty in practice means to realize when you do not have the power to overcome a particular nuisance energy or nuisance process which contravenes yoga.
If you are honest and are not into thinking you are God and what not, then you can really make advancement.
If the thought-idea section of the mind is stronger than the core-self, then the core-self should do the sensible thing which is to hide out where it cannot be reached by the enemy.
Stay with naad until you become strong enough where the thought-image mechanism is afraid of you, rather than the opposite way around.
Alfredo 3 years ago
Amazing! I mean your knowledge and mastering of this tremendous problem. Thank you!
Dean 3 years ago
Michael wrote: After this is done for about ten minutes, things switch and it seems that the naad sound is being absorbed by something at the location of the buddhi intellect orb. This is the signal that the orb is feeding on naad. The orb is not seen because on that level of perception it is invisible. Only its operation of feeding on naad is realized. That is how the yogi knows that it is operating.
Dean's question: What is happening when naad occupies the buddhi organ's default position?
MiBeloved 3 years ago
Dean's question: What is happening when naad occupies the buddhi organ's default position?
MiBeloved's Response:
The buddhi intellect orb is still there at that location but it is not perceived by the student because the student is in a dimension where the orb is not perceptible.
Seeing the orb is a rare vision which happens only when one is in a particular dimension. To understand this try to listen to your friend’s phone calls through your cell phone. Even though it is so easy for him to receive the calls which are dialed to his number and even if his digital signature number is one digit different from your own, still you cannot perceive his messages using your phone. So it is very difficult to see the buddhi intellect orb, except by its operations.
This means that the student just has to take my word for it, that wherever the thought-ideas arise, at that very location is where the buddhi is. Hence when naad floods into that place, the buddhi organ feeds on naad there or takes in the energy of naad.
This is perceived by the student by a certain lack of blank feeling at that place and by a satisfaction energy. Just as there is a feeling of fulfillment or a feeling of disgust or fear even when perceiving the thought ideas of the intellect, so there will be a feeling of satisfaction when the intellect is feeding on naad even though the intellect itself is not visually perceived.
When the girl was thinking about the negative attitude of her parents towards her boyfriend, the girl became depressed. When the same girl thought of meeting her boyfriend secretly for kisses, she became happy. And when the same girl thought of sitting through a math class at school she became indifferent. So by these feelings one can judge how the girl related to the various thought-ideas which flashed in her intellect.
The student can gage when the buddhi intellect is feeding on the naad sound in that way even though there was no visual perception of the buddhi’s actions.
Dean 3 years ago
Michael wrote: Hence when naad floods into that place, the buddhi organ feeds on naad there or takes in the energy of naad.
Dean's question: Is the Naad energy upgrading the buddhi equipment to see into higher dimensions by flushing out the mundane energy the buddhi has absorbed from these lower dimensions?
MiBeloved 3 years ago
Dean's question:
Is the Naad energy upgrading the buddhi equipment to see into higher dimensions by flushing out the mundane energy the buddhi has absorbed from these lower dimensions?
MiBeloved's Response:
In this case the buddhi lost its operations which it used to perform with the thought-ideas-memory-fatigue sequences. But it did that through the core-self’s isolation in naad.
If you try to make the buddhi intellect orb absorb naad just like that, then it won’t work because on the normal level of consciousness it has an effective resistance to naad and does not absorb it. Normally it regards naad as just a buzz noise. This is another reason why many people listen to naad in meditation and get nothing out of it. This is because they are not assisted by a yoga guru and so they are listening to naad using the buddhi which is a serious mistake.
One should listen to naad using the core-self alone, the core-self which is turned away from the buddhi intellect orb facilities. Some of these practices you cannot do on your own. You cannot do without taking inner help from a yoga guru because you just do not have the means of success in your psyche.
The idea that you are God only goes so far and then you run into a dead-end.
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In other words your suggestion is incorrect in that the naad does not cause the buddhi to see into higher dimensions. Isolation of the core-self from the buddhi is what eventually causes the buddhi to see into higher dimensions. I have experienced this first hand but Patanjali told us about this, where he described kevalam as the core-self being isolated from the perception equipment (buddhi) and then when that isolation takes hold and the buddhi switched out of its low mode, the core-self again connects or uses the switched buddhi which is the final form of Kaivalyam.
Kevalam or kaivalyam does not mean oneness unless we are talking about something being one by itself, isolated from everything else. It does not mean oneness as a unity. It means oneness as segregation, as something being alone.
Patanjali declared this however in his second sutra of:
Yogah cittavritti nirodhah, which says essentially that when the student shuts down the normal operations of the buddhi in practice, then the student is doing yoga not otherwise.
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Continued from above.......
Your statement is great because it means that you are taking up this practice seriously and are thinking of how you can outsmart nature’s operations. This is good even though your method would be a flop. I introduced this practice to you and to others but most of you are spiritual eggheads. Still I explained this to you like a mama bird taking care of some naked baby birdies in a nest. I never know if any of you will be able to hack this process because you were so reliant on the bullshit situations which the buddhi organ has sponsored in your existence so far. It is nice to see one or two of you birdies practicing in a serious way like this.
The student has to find a way to beat or cheat the system, otherwise he or she will forever be in this Maya as they call it in India, Maya means bewilderment. This is an amusement park and it is all fun and challenge until you begin to see that you are permanently trapped here and will never get out. Then the fun stops and you really begin to pay attention to what you are being subjected to.
To be clear, let me try to summarize what I said above, using another way of explaining this:
Sequence
Practice Event
1.
Core-self runs from buddhi organ by taking shelter in naad vibration.
2.
Buddhi organ attracts core-self back to the frontal part of the subtle head. Core self finds that it does not have the power to remain in naad vibration when buddhi organ attracted it to the front to view images-thoughts-memories.
3.
Core-self after much meditation practice trying to reach naad finally feels that it can effectively resist buddhi by staying in naad.
4.
Core-self observes that when it is with naad, buddhi organ seems to disappear out of existence, even though it is reinstated in existence again when core-self comes out of naad meditation. However this reinstatement is with a weaker buddhi which does not have the compelling power it had before.
5.
After long sessions of meditation on naad, core-self find that when it moves forward in the subtle head during naad meditation, naad stays with the core self as it moves forward and the buddhi organ appears to be absent, as if it is non-existent.
6.
Core-self remains in its default position and finds that naad sound is with it and that it has resistance to the buddhi intellect organ in its default position, which is something it did not have before.
7.
After repeated meditation with naad while in its default position, core self discovers that it can effectively encourage naad sound to move to the frontal part of the head. There it finds that buddhi organ which remains invisible feeds on naad sound.
8.
This buddhi organ is a different mode of the same buddhi intellect orb organ which was changed because of the core-self isolation in naad, not because of the influence of naad on the buddhi. Because of the core-self’s effective continual isolation from buddhi, the buddhi organ changed and is now in a different mode of itself, a higher mode which can make use of naad vibration.
Naad vibration did not cause this change. It was the isolation of the core self from the buddhi that caused this change (kevalam-Patanjali’s word, meaning aloneness).
Dean 3 years ago
Great! Thank you for the explanation.
unlimitedsun 3 years ago
From the question can be derived much benefit in the reply.
Michael Wrote:
Because of the core-self’s effective continual isolation from naad, the buddhi organ changed and is not in a different mode of itself, a higher mode which can make use of naad vibration.
unlimitedsun’s comment:
I just want to make sure of the presence of not in the above statement.
MiBeloved 3 years ago
unlimitedsun,
thanks, the word should be now.
I edited it.
Dean 3 years ago
Michael, do these verses from the:
Uddhava Gita English pg 74, Chapter 8 verses 34-37 reference this practice?
One should regard this existence as an hallucination, being a theatrical presentation of the mind, being seen and then disappearing, being extremely shifty like a firebrand whirling in a circle. The one consciousness appears in many variations. The tripart consciousness which is produced by transformation of the modes of material nature is illusion like a dream. (8.34)
Hence withdrawing the perceptive interest, abandoning craving, one should be silent and by experiencing self-happiness, one should be free from cultural activity. Sometimes, if this existence is experienced, it will not be bewildering, being already discarded as unreal by the intellect, even though it will be as a memory until the death of the body. (8.35)
The perfected person, who realizes the self's true form, does not regard the transient body, whether it is sitting or standing, or even if it is taken away by providence, or acquired by destiny, just as a man who is drunk by liquor, does not regard the garment which covers his body. (8.36)
The body controlled by providence and along with the vital energy, it must be tolerated until the cultural activities which are the origin of it, have run their course. The person who attains continuous effortless linkage of the attention to a higher concentration force by yoga practice, and who realized reality, never again dedicates himself to the body and its extensions, which are like dream. (8.37)
MiBeloved 3 years ago
You have great potential to be an exemplary yogi for realizing that those verses are connected to this subject of meditation being discussed.
The whole phantasmagoria of the material world is only perceived because of the connection with the buddhi intellect orb. If that orb is removed, the spirit would not perceive this existence. Hence Patanjali has rightly directed that we abandon the operations of the intellect.
If you are at a distance from a disaster, it won't affect you at all. Sometimes when there is a war, a relative dies on the battlefront and his family not knowing what happened continues in happiness in his home town.
However as soon as they hear about this death, their happiness comes to an abrupt end.
This means that the anguish reaches us through connections or through adjuncts. Hence the necessity to break away from the adjuncts.
Trauma will always be in this world. That is for sure. Therefore our best bet is to work on disengaging from the psychic adjunct which connects us to this situation. It is the only way out.
In the Bhagavad Gita, Lord Krishna described the material world as an eternal banyan tree. If something is eternal then you will be frustrated if you have this idea to get rid of it. You will waste your time. Krishna told Arjuna to hack away at this eternal tree using the axe of detachment. That is the way an individual may sever his connection with the traumatic information which the tree produces as its fruits. It is the only way out.
Dean 3 years ago
Thank you for the encouragement. By reading your experiences and the hard work that you put into your spiritual practice is very motivating for me because I know as the expression goes I'm "behind the eight ball", so I have a ton of catching up to do.
