Lucid Dreaming / Astral Projection Compared

Meditationtime Forum Post

Date: Posted 6 years before Sep 06, 2018

MiBeloved 6 years ago

Astral projection can evolve into lucid dreaming and vice versa. Some of these experiences come about by themselves, spontaneously without desire and without trying to control or cause them to happen.

Everyone is hung up on controlling this but many of the experiences just happen or you find yourself in an astral projection after it began and you realize it for what it is. In other words imagine if I was regularly sleepwalking.

So my wife usually tells me how I get up and go to the toilet and then go to get my car keys, and then go back to the toilet and then again I go to get the car keys and then I start the car.

Then I just go back to bed.

So I am never aware of this even though it happened factually to the extent that my wife can show me that on a video which she taped. So then why did I not know what I was doing? If I am so much in charge of whatever happens on the subconscious side and on the dream side, then why am I sleep walking.

So then one night while I was doing it, I caught myself with my pajamas on in the act of starting the car. Then I tried to realize how I got out of bed and got all the way to the car without knowing what I was doing.

In the same way we usually find ourselves astral projecting or lucid dreaming. It is not that in most cases it is deliberately done, even though many sites on the Web advocate that.

I will deal with your questions indirectly because I feel that to understand what astral projection is as contrasted to lucid dreaming, will clear up much and will help to open your subconscious mind so that you can become aware of these experiences when they happen on their own.

The first thing to admit is that astral projection is happening every time the physical system sleeps. Now this is a premise which you should try to accept on my word. On this one thing, I ask for your confidence. At least until you can realize that factually for yourself.

So with that here is how to see those two types of experiences.

First there are three factors involved:

1. Physical body

2. Astral or subtle body

3. Imagination

In the physical world, imagination is something which I think up in my mind, it is a mental construction. It is related to reality but it is not reality. In the astral world imagination can be reality however. In other words in the astral world something I dream up can become very real. In the physical world if I dream that I have a book in my hand and there is no physical action to actually pick up a book, then there is nothing I can really do with that imagined book but in the subtle world depending on what level I am on, that dream book can become a real book in my hand.

Because in the subtle world imagination can become reality, it is hard to know when imagination has that power and when it does not have that power. So we have to agree that astral experiences are to an extent illusory. In the physical world we do not have to deal with that because our imagination just does not have that sort of power, since physical substance does not yield to our wishes that easily. If I dream up an iphone, I have to either hire people to make it or I have to buy it from someone who dreamt it up and hired people to make it. But in the astral world my iphone dream mighty just be a real astral phone, all depending on how the astral level responds or does not respond to my desire.

In astral projection the astral body is displaced from the physical body, so that you are in the astral body and you are not simultaneously in the physical form. When this happens you are in an astral world or subtle level of existence, in the hereafter, and you use the astral body there.

In lucid dreaming the astral body remains in the physical body and you are more aware of the astral form but you are slightly aware of the physical one. In other words the astral body is not fully displaced from the physical one but your attention is more in sync with the astral one and it is no longer fully in sync with the physical one.

So that is the difference. It is a difference of full displacement of the astral form or just a slight displacement. In the case of lucid dreaming the astral and physical systems share the same space, they remain interspaced in each other. But in the astral projection the astral one moves out of and away from the physical one.

I hope this provides some clarification. And of course others might not agree to these definitions, and that is okay.

Darren 6 years ago

In my experience recently I thought I astral projected but it seems it may have been an experience of evolving between an astral experience and a lucid dream, however I'm still not so sure.

To begin with I felt the astral body separate and found myself floating in an unfamiliar dimension in the same body position in which I was lying in bed.

I became active and consciously became aware in this dimension and went through the door and went to investigate my surroundings. My vision came from pitch black and opened up into full vision like a blind fold had been removed. I was sure of not making too many sudden movements as I was aware of my physical body in bed and felt that my physical movements in the astral/dream dimension could bleed over and I would wake myself up due to movement of the physical body.

Now I'll list a few of my experiences within this dimension, which at the time I thought was an adjacent parallel dimension which slightly mimicked my physical surroundings. But as I was simultaneously aware of my physical body in bed now leads me to believe i was lucid dreaming?

In this dimension I tried to read writing on paper and on shop/building fronts but I couldn't make out the words which were written in joint handwriting style letters. I walked around looking for clues as to where I was. I got on a train/tram type vehicle which was being driven by a guy who lives close though i haven't seen him in years nor am i his friend. He seemed to be 'working' as the driver of this vehicle. Anyway I said hi drove along with a couple of other people who were sitting on the seats behind. I got out by choice by going through the wall and went into a shed/hut to explore further.

My feelings were of curiosity to discover my surroundings. General happiness to be conscious in this dimension and a feeling of slight urgency to speak to someone or gain some kind of beneficial experience knowing fine rightly that I could wake up soon.

I went into the shed and it was dark, looked around came out and it had got brighter. Two men approached me and I felt fear and possibly thought they would try to overpower me or start a fight. With these feeling of negativity their skin turned a bluish/green zombie like texture and reminded me of some entities I've come across before in astral dimensions... they always chased me and were not exactly friendly in the past. However as I was aware of the non physicality of my experience I thought I'd try a different approach and said to the two guys "hey, there's no problem, I don't want to fight with you guys I like this place and want to stay longer." With this, their demeanour completely changed, they became benign and turned and walked off and seemed quite happy to leave me to my own devices. Interestingly, their colour and complexion went back to normal white male.

I continued on walking and looking for information for where I was and in front of me I saw a group of three or four people talking. I somehow overheard or assumed that it was spiritual topics they were discussing so I went over to speak to them, still aware that my physical body was in bed.

I told them my name and told them i was very interested as to where I was. I told them I was from a physical dimension parallel to the one I was currently in with them and couldn't stay long. One of them, a woman said "interesting, very interesting" as though she was intrigued with what I was saying although not surprised. Another guy to my right just stared at me quite suspiciously throughout and never spoke. I asked them about where I was from and who they were etc. I asked them were they aware of the dimension I'm from and they (two woman) said yes, and sometimes they go back usually to help people. If there was an accident or something (i think this is what they said, if they didn't it was certainly the impression I got, somehow.) As this short discussion was going on I started to feel my movements restricted and my vision was getting weaker. I asked the woman to my left (an asian woman) had we met before (this was the most interesting part of the experience) She said, smiling and assuredly:

"Yes, I met you on the first weekend of next month. My nice lamp makes the news".

Strange, but I couldn't help feeling i would see her and if i did would recognise her. With this I continued to 'fade out' and found it difficult to move and speak. As i was having difficulty speaking the woman got less interested, looking at me funnily and was losing patience. As i faded out I muttered the words thank you and they smiled. I awoke in bed cold as the blankets were down, i believe it was the discomfort or coldness of the physical body that brought me out of the astral/dream dimension.

Would you classify this as a lucid dream or astral projection?

Depending on what it was, to what degree do the location and entities I met objectively exist? I felt like a visitor. I don't believe this location or those entities exist solely within my imagination. Or did they?

Finally, the woman with the cryptic clue about our future meeting that had seemingly already taken place... does this have any relevance to anything in my life I wonder?

Thank you.

MiBeloved 6 years ago

Darren wrote:

In my experience recently I thought I astral projected but it seems it may have been an experience of evolving between an astral experience and a lucid dream, however I'm still not so sure.

MiBeloved’s Response:

The first thing is that we have to ask ourselves about the difference between astral projection and lucid dreaming.

The only difference is that in lucid dreaming the subtle body is still interspaced in the physical body while in astral projection the subtle body is displaced out of the physical one.

To be clear, imagine that I am in my house on Regent Street. I pick up my cell phone and call you. I was in the house and I made contact with someone who is outside of the house. That is like lucid dreaming where you are still in the physical body but your subtle perception is so acute that you can contact someone in the subtle world.

But on the next day I am outside of my house, out in the garden. I again call you. So that is like an astral projection, where you leave the house or physical body go outside of it and make contact with someone in the subtle world.

================================

Darren wrote:

To begin with I felt the astral body separate and found myself floating in an unfamiliar dimension in the same body position in which I was lying in bed.

MiBeloved’s Response:

This is great for you since it gives you personal evidence that there is a subtle body which will exist beyond death of the physical one. This is part of self realization, where you get direct evidence of yourself as a subtle body, because then you know for sure that when this physical body is finished, you will go on living nevertheless. So that is a big headache which is over. You won’t have to petition Christ to get a subtle body or to resurrect the old physical one which they might entomb.

There are many experiences with the subtle body when it affords the user no vision. However one should not be worried about that. All kittens are born with closed eyelids and this continues for them for about 9 days. They are even deaf at birth. They are very helpless. So in the subtle body it might take some special circumstances for it to afford you vision.

It is natural to be in the subtle body and not to have vision. That should be no worry. Eventually vision will happen of its own accord. Just don’t get excited if you find yourself without vision, because the excitement might cause the astral projection to stop and you will find yourself back as a physical being as usual.

Once you have a definite astral projection, I can talk to you sensibly because then you are no longer just a person with physical perception only and with some vague idea of a subtle world. So the next step is the hustle up and tour around the subtle world to see where you will be once the physical body dies. Where will you go? Will it be a hell or a heaven?

Recently you did some travelling abroad and you were to send us some reports on that. We got one or two reports. Thanks. Question is: Were you concerned at all about the accommodations while you were travelling. Consider the same thing about the hereafter, except that when you have to go there at the end of the present body, you will not be able to return here. This is why it is important to set up your accommodations there right now.

================================

Darren Wrote:

Replies (2)

· Arpana Ukkund

· 2018-10-26T09:25:29+0000
Continued from above…

In this dimension I tried to read writing on paper and on shop/building fronts but I couldn't make out the words which were written in joint handwriting style letters. I walked around looking for clues as to where I was. I got on a train/tram type vehicle which was being driven by a guy who lives close though i haven't seen him in years nor am i his friend. He seemed to be 'working' as the driver of this vehicle. Anyway I said hi drove along with a couple of other people who were sitting on the seats behind. I got out by choice by going through the wall and went into a shed/hut to explore further.

My feelings were of curiosity to discover my surroundings. General happiness to be conscious in this dimension and a feeling of slight urgency to speak to someone or gain some kind of beneficial experience knowing fine rightly that I could wake up soon.

I went into the shed and it was dark, looked around came out and it had got brighter. Two men approached me and I felt fear and possibly thought they would try to overpower me or start a fight. With these feeling of negativity their skin turned a bluish/green zombie like texture and reminded me of some entities I've come across before in astral dimensions... they always chased me and were not exactly friendly in the past. However as I was aware of the non physicality of my experience I thought I'd try a different approach and said to the two guys "hey, there's no problem, I don't want to fight with you guys I like this place and want to stay longer." With this, their demeanour completely changed, they became benign and turned and walked off and seemed quite happy to leave me to my own devices. Interestingly, their colour and complexion went back to normal white male.

I continued on walking and looking for information for where I was and in front of me I saw a group of three or four people talking. I somehow overheard or assumed that it was spiritual topics they were discussing so I went over to speak to them, still aware that my physical body was in bed.

I told them my name and told them i was very interested as to where I was. I told them I was from a physical dimension parallel to the one I was currently in with them and couldn't stay long. One of them, a woman said "interesting, very interesting" as though she was intrigued with what I was saying although not surprised. Another guy to my right just stared at me quite suspiciously throughout and never spoke. I asked them about where I was from and who they were etc. I asked them were they aware of the dimension I'm from and they (two woman) said yes, and sometimes they go back usually to help people. If there was an accident or something (i think this is what they said, if they didn't it was certainly the impression I got, somehow.) As this short discussion was going on I started to feel my movements restricted and my vision was getting weaker. I asked the woman to my left (an asian woman) had we met before (this was the most interesting part of the experience) She said, smiling and assuredly:

"Yes, I met you on the first weekend of next month. My nice lamp makes the news".

Strange, but I couldn't help feeling i would see her and if i did would recognise her. With this I continued to 'fade out' and found it difficult to move and speak. As i was having difficulty speaking the woman got less interested, looking at me funnily and was losing patience. As i faded out I muttered the words thank you and they smiled. I awoke in bed cold as the blankets were down, i believe it was the discomfort or coldness of the physical body that brought me out of the astral/dream dimension.

Would you classify this as a lucid dream or astral projection?

Depending on what it was, to what degree do the location and entities I met objectively exist? I felt like a visitor. I don't believe this location or those entities exist solely within my imagination. Or did they?

Finally, the woman with the cryptic clue about our future meeting that had seemingly already taken place... does this have any relevance to anything in my life I wonder?

Thank you.

MiBeloved 6 years ago

Darren wrote:

In my experience recently I thought I astral projected but it seems it may have been an experience of evolving between an astral experience and a lucid dream, however I'm still not so sure.

MiBeloved’s Response:

The first thing is that we have to ask ourselves about the difference between astral projection and lucid dreaming.

The only difference is that in lucid dreaming the subtle body is still interspaced in the physical body while in astral projection the subtle body is displaced out of the physical one.

To be clear, imagine that I am in my house on Regent Street. I pick up my cell phone and call you. I was in the house and I made contact with someone who is outside of the house. That is like lucid dreaming where you are still in the physical body but your subtle perception is so acute that you can contact someone in the subtle world.

But on the next day I am outside of my house, out in the garden. I again call you. So that is like an astral projection, where you leave the house or physical body go outside of it and make contact with someone in the subtle world.

================================

Darren wrote:

To begin with I felt the astral body separate and found myself floating in an unfamiliar dimension in the same body position in which I was lying in bed.

I became active and consciously became aware in this dimension and went through the door and went to investigate my surroundings. My vision came from pitch black and opened up into full vision like a blind fold had been removed. I was sure of not making too many sudden movements as I was aware of my physical body in bed and felt that my physical movements in the astral/dream dimension could bleed over and I would wake myself up due to movement of the physical body.

MiBeloved’s Response:

This is great for you since it gives you personal evidence that there is a subtle body which will exist beyond death of the physical one. This is part of self realization, where you get direct evidence of yourself as a subtle body, because then you know for sure that when this physical body is finished, you will go on living nevertheless. So that is a big headache which is over. You won’t have to petition Christ to get a subtle body or to resurrect the old physical one which they might entomb.

There are many experiences with the subtle body when it affords the user no vision. However one should not be worried about that. All kittens are born with closed eyelids and this continues for them for about 9 days. They are even deaf at birth. They are very helpless. So in the subtle body it might take some special circumstances for it to afford you vision.

It is natural to be in the subtle body and not to have vision. That should be no worry. Eventually vision will happen of its own accord. Just don’t get excited if you find yourself without vision, because the excitement might cause the astral projection to stop and you will find yourself back as a physical being as usual.

Once you have a definite astral projection, I can talk to you sensibly because then you are no longer just a person with physical perception only and with some vague idea of a subtle world. So the next step is the hustle up and tour around the subtle world to see where you will be once the physical body dies. Where will you go? Will it be a hell or a heaven?

Recently you did some travelling abroad and you were to send us some reports on that. We got one or two reports. Thanks. Question is: Were you concerned at all about the accommodations while you were travelling. Consider the same thing about the hereafter, except that when you have to go there at the end of the present body, you will not be able to return here. This is why it is important to set up your accommodations there right now.

================================

Darren Wrote:

Now I'll list a few of my experiences within this dimension, which at the time I thought was an adjacent parallel dimension which slightly mimicked my physical surroundings. But as I was simultaneously aware of my physical body in bed now leads me to believe i was lucid dreaming?

MiBeloved’s Response:

Be very clear about it, that a displacement of the subtle body out of the physical is an astral projection, even if the subtle body is still having contact with the physical one. You can be here and there simultaneously. So long as the astral body is displaced from the physical one even if it is displaced out just 1 inch, it is an astral projection.

Both in astral projection and in lucid dreaming you may have some awareness of the physical system. In lucid dreaming there is always that residual awareness of the physical system but in astral projection there might be some awareness or there might be none.

================================

Darren wrote:

In this dimension I tried to read writing on paper and on shop/building fronts but I couldn't make out the words which were written in joint handwriting style letters. I walked around looking for clues as to where I was. I got on a train/tram type vehicle which was being driven by a guy who lives close though i haven't seen him in years nor am i his friend. He seemed to be 'working' as the driver of this vehicle. Anyway I said hi drove along with a couple of other people who were sitting on the seats behind. I got out by choice by going through the wall and went into a shed/hut to explore further.

My feelings were of curiosity to discover my surroundings. General happiness to be conscious in this dimension and a feeling of slight urgency to speak to someone or gain some kind of beneficial experience knowing fine rightly that I could wake up soon.

I went into the shed and it was dark, looked around came out and it had got brighter. Two men approached me and I felt fear and possibly thought they would try to overpower me or start a fight. With these feeling of negativity their skin turned a bluish/green zombie like texture and reminded me of some entities I've come across before in astral dimensions... they always chased me and were not exactly friendly in the past. However as I was aware of the non physicality of my experience I thought I'd try a different approach and said to the two guys "hey, there's no problem, I don't want to fight with you guys I like this place and want to stay longer." With this, their demeanour completely changed, they became benign and turned and walked off and seemed quite happy to leave me to my own devices. Interestingly, their colour and complexion went back to normal white male.

I continued on walking and looking for information for where I was and in front of me I saw a group of three or four people talking. I somehow overheard or assumed that it was spiritual topics they were discussing so I went over to speak to them, still aware that my physical body was in bed.

I told them my name and told them i was very interested as to where I was. I told them I was from a physical dimension parallel to the one I was currently in with them and couldn't stay long. One of them, a woman said "interesting, very interesting" as though she was intrigued with what I was saying although not surprised. Another guy to my right just stared at me quite suspiciously throughout and never spoke. I asked them about where I was from and who they were etc. I asked them were they aware of the dimension I'm from and they (two woman) said yes, and sometimes they go back usually to help people. If there was an accident or something (i think this is what they said, if they didn't it was certainly the impression I got, somehow.) As this short discussion was going on I started to feel my movements restricted and my vision was getting weaker. I asked the woman to my left (an asian woman) had we met before (this was the most interesting part of the experience) She said, smiling and assuredly:

"Yes, I met you on the first weekend of next month. My nice lamp makes the news".

Strange, but I couldn't help feeling i would see her and if i did would recognise her. With this I continued to 'fade out' and found it difficult to move and speak. As i was having difficulty speaking the woman got less interested, looking at me funnily and was losing patience. As i faded out I muttered the words thank you and they smiled. I awoke in bed cold as the blankets were down, i believe it was the discomfort or coldness of the physical body that brought me out of the astral/dream dimension.

Would you classify this as a lucid dream or astral projection?

MiBeloved’s Response:

This was certainly an astral projection into an adjacent dimension where souls who are waiting for rebirth hang out in their ghost bodies. So I wouldn’t want to be in your shoes because if you lose your physical body soon, you will be stuck in this type of dimension because you have not cultivated even spiritual discipline to go to a higher zone.

But the lady who spoke about the time warp was interesting. She was thinking of having you come over into another strange parallel world to hang out with her. Maybe the woman had a crush on you. Be careful in these astral places since you can get transited into strange places and might be stuck there for hundreds of years without remembering who you were while you were in the last body.

Your diagnosis was correct that the cold condition of the physical system caused your kundalini to pull back in the astral form. Kundalini has that authority over the subtle body.

================================

Darren wrote:

Depending on what it was, to what degree do the location and entities I met objectively exist? I felt like a visitor. I don't believe this location or those entities exist solely within my imagination. Or did they?

Finally, the woman with the cryptic clue about our future meeting that had seemingly already taken place... does this have any relevance to anything in my life I wonder?

MiBeloved’s Response:

The woman wants to meet you in the astral world in some weird time warp place where the future is the past and the past is future and the present is always a transit point into either.

There are such places in the astral world. The woman knows that you have interest in such things and so when she met you there, she wanted to invite you to abandon your existence in this world and go with her to that other place where the entities get to play with time as it was made of chewing gum.

If this had happened on an LSD trip and you took the invitation, you might have left your physical body permanently; your relatives and friends on this side would have said that you overdosed on drugs.

Do you want to go with that woman or not?
· Arpana Ukkund

· 2018-10-26T09:27:21+0000
Continued from above…

Well I do not need to hear the answer, but if you do, then you can meditate and try to reach her. The dimension you were in is very close to this physical existence, it is similar to the thing in Alice in Wonderland, where she fell into another world which was real close to this world, except that she came back over after completing some activities there.

Because the woman is an entity using a subtle body which can wiggle time, she is able to meet you in the future of the past or in the past of the future, and she wanted to demonstrate it to you, but your kundalini got scared that you might not come back and pulled you back in.

Darren 6 years ago

Thank you for the answer.

One thing is for sure, and it's something you've told me time and time again that I must cultivate a spiritual discipline and get my ass into gear. Certainly as far as sticking to a meditation regime which, with even with the best intentions, I can't manage to do.

Even after my retreat at the monastery I had some nice experiences but have failed to take anything permanently into my normal everyday life. Being taken over with the excitement of being back home, having people to see and things to do seems to have gotten in the way of which was the intention to knuckle down - at least to the degree of establishing a meditation routine.

Lately though I have been feeling a pull to get more disciplined, and this correspondence simply reinforces that in me.

MiBeloved 6 years ago

If you have not lived in an ashram with its mandatory meditation routine then it is not easy to stick to any steady meditation. The value of ashram is that it gives one that sense of a daily time for meditation.

Still you can initiate yourself if you understand the urgency for it and that by doing it you benefit yourself in the long range.

Here are a few pointers.

Meditation is best done in the early morning between say about 4-30 am and 6-30 am. Why, because meditation concerns what is psychic and transcendental and at that time most people are trying to get their last snooze for the night. As a result the psychic atmosphere is the most quiet at that time.

There is a problem however with that time, because that is also the time when a person, even the meditator, wants to really curl up and sleep.

Especially nowadays with the flood of electric lights, and with television and other forms of media, we usually stay up during the night. Thus waking early has become a no no.

Therefore you have to discipline yourself to get to bed early so that waking early to meditate becomes a simple and natural matter. Once you get to bed early, rising early becomes natural.

Now if all of that is out of the question because of your social circumstance, then you can still commit yourself to meditation at some other time during the day. Whatever you decide be consistent at it. Over time it will become a habit.