How many Incarnations

Meditationtime Forum Post

Date:  Posted 3 years before Jun 15, 2016

Jettins 3 years ago

I am wondering on how many incarnation an average human has as different people. I am not being too specific with the question because I don't know how you will want to answer it.

MiBeloved 3 years ago

Generally one does not begin these lives in material bodies from the platform of the human species. On this planet the human species is the highest which means that it is the last frontier for life form research, the highest. It is like the graduate level of education.

There are more persons in elementary classes, than there are in the graduate level. So mostly we begin from unicellular organisms and then over millions of universal eras, we gradually reach the level of the human form of life.

One has to first reach entry level species like the apes, monkeys, lions, tigers, elephants, sharks, whales, dogs horses and so on and then one moves into the human species but we remain in those lower life forms for billions of years transmigrating, which means taking many many thousands of bodies as these forms.

When at last, one enters the human form after having evolved up through various lower species, one must then take several thousands of births before one can even get any idea about developing the subtle body and moving to a celestial plane.

Most of us came into material existence from what is called the brahman effulgence in the Upanishad texts from India. This is the spiritual plane of existence where everything is sheer spiritual light. In that way we were specks of that spirit light like atoms slivers of light in sunlight.

Due to that our first forms were unicellular organisms which has just a sense of feeling contained in a membrane. That is how material nature made up our first body but it did that on the basis of our atomic spherical spiritual forms. After many many lives as such an unicellular creature one takes hints from material nature and gradually over millions of years, one develops other sensual interest and the initial feeling interest becomes divested into five distinct sensual pursuits.

But there are another set of spirits who assume human bodies.  These are divine beings who have divine forms with limbs and senses initially and were not in the spherical feeling configuration. These may also manifest in human bodies or even in animal forms for their own purposes.

One can reincarnate repeatedly, even millions of times as a human being according to the time and places which are made available by material nature in its cosmic development

Jettins 3 years ago

Thanks for the information. I had a very interesting experience this morning relating to this, which is why I asked. I arrived very lucid in the astral side of things somewhere in 1979. In this particular dimension people did experiments to determine how many incarnations a particular person had. My reading came approximately 452,000 as human. I wouldn't consider these particular beings as knowing what they are talking about, but it's interesting nonetheless.

During another OBE today I didn't go off exploring. I asked if I was a "Higher Self" and a telepathic voice said "yes", you all are. I think I should state what I Higher Self is to me, since the reply was given to me. A higher self would simply be that there is a higher order, something else that I am also part of. A bit vague, but I am trying not to have conclusions yet.

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approximately 452,000 as human.

Alfredo 3 years ago

Thanks for the thorough explanation, which is quite in line with Hindu and Buddhists ideas.

Wishful thinking, for example, was part of Madame Blavastky when she, together with Colonel Olcott, founded Theosophy, for they proclaimed that once human, that form cannot revert back to a lower species, which according to your teachings is not quite correct, in other words, that one can go back to an animal body, for example.

Jettins 3 years ago

The paragraph below is an excerpt from a post I made some time ago. It seems pertinent to what Michael wrote for this post.

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If we then take another look at human consciousness and say that it has been evolving in tandem according to the limitations of biology of the human brain, then we could say that the rest of the organism are in a different stage in their evolution. Some consciousness have evolved differently for example humans and dogs, and they each have their own states of being the Astral Realms. Taking this idea further one could say that not everyone is at the same level of consciousness (or spirit, subtle body) evolution. It is possible that consciousness indeed does evolve by learning and acquiring knowledge, similar to all organic life evolving by learning to better adapt to its conditions.  If you look at history humans appear to be playing out this scenario. Each culture in history having a set of probabilities according to the conditions set forth by the limitations and allowances of the times. Tom further suggests we are playing this game for the evolution of the spirit to then evolve to exist outside the learning arena of physical reality.

MiBeloved 3 years ago

I have no problem with that 452,000 number but it is true that it varies from individual to individual where some stay longer in lower species than others, just as we see that different students have different aptitudes which allow some to quickly master a skill and others to drag along for years and still not understand how to do it.

It also depends on the route taken in the transmigrations. For instance from being a river fish, I may go to being a shark and then from a shark I may become a dolphin. Then from there I may become a primitive human. But I can also go from being a fish to being an alligator then being a snake, then being a mongoose, then being a pet mongoose of a human, then being a primitive Human. There are many routes like this and that also hampers the speed with which one would evolve as compared to someone else.

Even though all the students leave high school at 18 years of age, still some of these do not graduate and remain stalled in their learning. So one spirit might move into a species like that of a donkey for instance, and then just stall there and then become a human being but it will be a dumb human being because its aptitude to learn is just slow. So as a human being it will remain as a human being for millions of lives perhaps or even regress and go back into the ass species again, and it will hardly ever have any idea of a divine existence.

This is not a crisis for it, because what you are unaware of does not disturb you.

Donkeys actually think that they are more intelligent than human beings and that human beings are the real asses in the creation. In other words, if I was to move over and become the colt of a donkey mother, then I will regard Jettins as a real ass because Jettins has to get up early, go to work and do so many things and still he only eats a few pounds of food everyday. Jettins, I will think has no advantage over me, except that he has to work, he has to pass waste in a special place, he cannot eat all sorts of vegetation. He is limited every which way. He is under a dictatorship and has no freedom to wander around, eat any and everything, shit here or there. Poor Jettins. He does not know what he is missing. He is a slave of nature instead of being a master like myself and the other wild donkeys.

I know this about donkeys because I used to keep them and I would read their thoughts concerning me. They also very much resented being controlled and being made to saddle up and carry humans or human cargo. Once when I was a boy in Guyana, a donkey kicked me. It is not a nice thing. The donkey resented human beings. So when I stood near its hind legs and when the donkey-cart owner was not looking, it kicked me out of spite for the abuse it got from human beings.

I did not harm the animal but it regarded humanity as one hated species and so by kicking me it felt satisfied. After kicking me it turned and looked at me with satisfaction that I was in terrible pain.

Once you know what you are as a core-self you will know it because then you will realize that you can fit into any of these species. So long as you think that you are a human soul or whatever, that is the indication that for sure you do not know what the soul is. The soul is adaptable to any species at any time just as all appliances are adaptable to 120 volts.

When Krishna explained this to Arjuna, Arjuna just told Krishna that he (Arjuna) did not understand anything about the comparative similarity between the various species in terms of a spirit of a similar type being harnessed to different types of bodies.  This means that if Arjuna could not get it, there is no shame if we do not get it either. But in time it is hoped that we will realize this. Then we will no longer speak about human souls because there is no such thing. There are souls using various types of bodies such as human body, ant body, grasshopper body, mosquito body etc.

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Let me be clear that Madam Blavatsky was a great mystic and is to be credited with the tremendous work she did to advance the cause of mysticism in the Western countries. However her idea about the soul not regressing after entering the human form is totally untrue.

She should have said that it is hardly likely that the soul would do that, because of two reasons. One is the upward push from material nature. The other is the divine pull from the Supreme Being. These two forces and not the soul itself are the relative assurance that a soul will not slide back down. But on occasion even these two very powerful influences do fail to keep the soul from sliding down and it does happen that some souls do slide back down.

Continued vicious activities and continued vulgar activities are a sure way for a soul to move back down to a species where he or she can max out again using a lower life form which allows more facility for bad habits. For instance eating flesh can be maxed out in the lion species.

Having much sex can be maxed out in the rabbit species.

Attacking others can be maxed out in the snake species.

Having no mercy on others can be maxed out in the shark species.

Being a selfish female celebrity can be maxed out in the bee species.

Being a lazy domineering male can be maxed out in the lion species.

If a human being keeps on exhibiting a particular vice or trait which is maxed out only in some other species, it runs the risk of having to take birth in that other lower life form.

A sure way also to go downward is to become fond of a human pet, like a cat, dog or horse. Right now many human pets in the developed countries were human beings in their most recent past life and nature has allowed them to reap the benefit of their previous social contribution to human society by being pets of wealthy humans. These pets live even a better life than humans who are in poverty in many parts of the world.

Only a fool would think the he or she cannot be demoted to a lower species. All appliances can run on 120 volts and similarly every spirit can fit nicely into any other species without a hitch. Of this you can be sure. Or you can say that I said it.

When you are in the astral world trying to come back in as a baby, you can hardly distinguish between the sexual act of two humans or two dogs. From the astral planes the energy of sex of either species is so similar to be indistinguishable. So if you are not careful, guess what might happen?

What difference does it make if my mother is a dog or a cat or a human? The same affection will be there between mother and child, the same breast to suck etc. So keep this in mind and do not be arrogant thinking that those lower species are definitely below you.

You are soul, not human soul. Human is the body type. Some of us use cheap Japanese cars. Some of us buy expensive German cars. These are all cars. None of us is a Japanese car or a German car. We are drivers of these various types of vehicles.

Jettins 3 years ago

Interesting information, thanks for sharing. The stuff on the donkey was hilarious. I couldn’t stop laughing as I read it.

AspiringSiddha 3 years ago

Michael Wrote: I know this about donkeys because I used to keep them and I would read their thoughts concerning me.

AspiringSiddha Query: When does this occur in a student? Reading thoughts?

unlimitedsun 3 years ago

Link ->  iLove you, Me too

MiBeloved 3 years ago

Accurate reading of thoughts occurs when you retreat from the chatter area of the mind on a regular basis in your daily meditation session. If you do this then the observing self can be objective to thoughts and can be free from thought confusion.

The chatter of thoughts are going on day and night but the radio pick-up of the mind has difficulty sorting the sounds and determining their sources. The radio has to be fine tuned in meditation and then each channel will be clear and free from static.

Dean 3 years ago

Michael Wrote: Most of us came into material existence from what is called the brahman effulgence in the Upanishad texts from India. This is the spiritual plane of existence where everything is sheer spiritual light. In that way we were specks of that spirit light like atoms slivers of light in sunlight.

Due to that our first forms were unicellular organisms which has just a sense of feeling contained in a membrane. That is how material nature made up our first body but it did that on the basis of our atomic spherical spiritual forms.

Dean's Question: Are there any theories as to why we left the spiritual plane to explore material nature?

unlimitedsun 3 years ago

Apparently existing in sheer spiritual light is not the ultimate state. So individual selves take on the opportunity of experiencing life as it were. Within this illusory material local they feel life and live independently from God or the source.

However, eventually realizing that the scheme is an inconvenience just as a fish cannot live outside of water, the individuals then abandon playing God as they ascend to their original position feeling divine.

Just thinking out loud

One Consciousness!

MiBeloved 3 years ago

Dean's Question: Are there any theories as to why we left the spiritual plane to explore material nature?

MiBeloved's Response:

Patanjali explained it as spiritual ignorance.

In the Srimad Bhagavatam, it is explained as something that just happens when a deity by the name of Mahavishnu attracts some of the spirits in the effulgence and transfers them into the care of Durga Devi Goddess.

It is not something that is thought out like say sitting down and planning a city or an amusement park.

Suppose I ask you this question:

Why did it happen that your mother became pregnant and you were born? What was the reason?

You can see there that the question is framed badly. It presupposes that there was a deliberate plot of your mother but supposes she got pregnant accidentally or spontaneously. Many young women get pregnant without their knowledge because it is nature that does this and they are not in a hands-on way with everything that nature does using their bodies which were created by nature and not by themselves.

Spirits exist just like that without any reason and without being created by anyone. The Supreme Spirit also exists in the same way and has causeless responsibilities for the development of the spirits. But this is occurring existentially without any logic as the basis.

The question is really the sequence of events not the reason for the events.

What is the sequence of your Mom’s pregnancy?

That is the good question.

What is the reason for the pregnancy?

That is a bad question.

Dean 3 years ago

Surya Wrote: Apparently existing in sheer spiritual light is not the ultimate state. So individual selves take on the opportunity of experiencing life as it were. Within this illusory material local they feel life and live independently from God or the source.

Michael Wrote: Patanjali explained it as spiritual ignorance.

In the Srimad Bhagavatam, it is explained as something that just happens when a deity by the name of Mahavishnu attracts some of the spirits in the effulgence and transfers them into the care of Durga Devi Goddess.

Dean's comment: Surya, thanks for your explanation on this matter.

Michael, Patanjali's explanation sums it all up. We are ignorant from the beginning of existence and remain ignorant throughout our entire journey back to the spiritual plane since we are not in control of a damn thing.

Thank you!