Divine and Absolute Evil
Meditationtime Forum Post
Date: Posted 6 years before Nov 15, 2018
Jettins 6 years ago
Requested by Alfredo:
Experience #161 from January 15, 2011 called “Divine” and “Absolute Evil”. I was listening to a recorded interview on YouTube when I started to fall to sleep. I was trying to stay awake and listen to the interview buy my sleepiness took a hold of me and won. I do not know at what point I fell to sleep, as I lost track of time. During the experience itself I did not realize I had fallen asleep, in my mind I was still listening to the interview while lying down in my bed. I was in my bed as things are supposed to when suddenly I get the idea that I would like to experience “the divine”. The idea was based on what I heard on the YouTube interview. I got the idea while listening to the interview inside the dream itself and not before. It is possible that what I heard was something that was not spoke during the actual interview, but I can’t be sure since I didn’t go back to listen to the original interview.
So I am laying still in my bed feeling awake listening to the interview. Then close my eyes and say to myself “I would like to experience the divine”, suddenly I feel myself Astral Body rise up in the air.
Directly from my logs:
I started to feel myself as if I was turning into something else; I turned into a type of mist, like a little wind that was moving and circling around here near my bedroom. When I opened my eyes, I couldn’t see a body, I just felt myself floating in the air moving in no particular pattern like a wind, absolutely no sense weight.
My emotions felt the same. I then got the idea that I wanted to experience absolute evil, I slowly started falling down into the bed until I felt myself lying down in my bed again. I opened my eyes and the room was normal, I could see my blue ceiling.
Directly from my logs:
Everything was fine, but after a few seconds black spots on the ceiling started to form around me and in 3 dimensional space, and then it coalesced into a black energy form. I had my arms in front of my body and it started to push down very hard in my arms, really hard to the point that I couldn’t breathe well. But then I lifted my arms and I said in a curious way, “You don’t have moral power over me, I am also spirit, you don’t have power over me” I started to push really hard and I started to lift it. I could lift it more than that form was pushing against me. I felt the hands; they felt like I was grabbing bones. It had a type of black robe that I could see, but there was nothing inside the robe, like a black hole. It started to push back, but it couldn’t get closer anymore. I wasn’t afraid, not in the least bit. His body was trying to get closer to my neck as if trying to make me afraid, but I didn’t even flinch. Then instead of pushing down, it came around me and gave me a kiss on the cheeks. I could feel the moist of the lips in my cheeks. After that I took note and said “who are you”, and then it turned into a person. It was looking straight at me.
It was very strange because I don’t know at which time I fell to sleep, I don’t know at which time I woke up. It felt like I was awake all the time actually. No auditory sensation or hallucinations of entering trance states. No transitions, felt like I was just awake. I didn’t realize when I had woken up; I didn’t feel waking up, like I didn’t wake up and as if I was awake when it happened. It is the only experience with unnoticed transitions like this that I can remember.
Thoughts
I can go forever on this one, but I will wait to give you my ideas after your thoughts. I would like to be less verbose and to the point.
MiBeloved 6 years ago
Jettins wrote:
I started to feel myself as if I was turning into something else; I turned into a type of mist, like a little wind that was moving and circling around here near my bedroom. When I opened my eyes, I couldn’t see a body, I just felt myself floating in the air moving in no particular pattern like a wind, absolutely no sense weight.
MiBeloved's Response:
Sometimes when a person is to take a material body, that soul travels through a longer process than the one where we take birth immediately by assuming a fetus. There are several routes of getting to be a human fetus. One method is to enter into the human parent from being an animal like a pet animal. But the longer course is to enter through being food.
This is explained in the Upanishads, where it is said that some persons who come down from the heavenly world, may on occasion first become rainfall. Then from rainfall become grain, from grain become semen and then take a fetus form.
The idea is that there is spirit all over this creation, pervading everything and as such a spirit can assume any form if it gets the opportunity, is positioned existentially to fuse into the formation of any type of body.
Alfredo 6 years ago
MiBeloved wrote:
[This is explained in the Upanishads, where it is aid that some persons who come down from the heavenly world, may on occasion first become rainfall. Then from rainfall become grain, from grain become semen and then take a fetus form.]
Alfredo's Reply:
Isn't this entertained in the Vaishvanara Vidya also known as the Panchagni Vidya of the 5th chapter of the Chhandogya Upanishad?
This is an excerpt of a poem I wrote in 2001 on this Vidya, covering this:
The first sacrifice occurs as Om in the Celestial Heaven,
Followed by a reverberation felt in the lower regions of the atmosphere,
This is the second fire, which brings the rain that provides food.
The third oblation is grosser and manifests as causes in the world.
Man himself produces the fourth fire by consuming the food,
Thus energizing himself and getting ready for procreation.
The last and final oblation is woman united with man,
Which brings about the birth of a child.
These are the five fires, they are not individual events,
The womb of the woman is equal to the womb of nature,
Every time anything is born this process is followed.
MiBeloved 6 years ago
Alfredo,
Yes that is the main location of this information.
Some angelic beings sometimes take the forms of clouds on earth, in the clouds and then sometimes unfortunately, they are captured by the water vapor and are not released, and then they become rain, fall on the earth, enter plants and become grain or fruit, and then enter into animal or human forms or some other forms and take life as an earth species.
Alfredo 6 years ago
Thanks Michael, please check the piece I added:
To Jettins:
Very gracious of you to post this after my request. Thanks.
Experience of the Divine: The Divine is light. Light, the physical element, also means weightless, the most rarefied weightlessness is that of consciousness. The awareness here is bodiless.
Experience of Evil: Evil is a black force. It is not the opposite of light, but the absence of it, so it finally cannot stand by itself.
I would like to know more about the nature of the person Evil turned into. I suspect that is the key to the riddle.
Cancer, I am learning, hates oxygen, a light gas, and love acid, a heavy, hot, dark substance.
============================================
Vaishvanara Vidya
(Panchagni Vidya)
(Bhuma Vidya)
To Swami Jyotirmayananda
“The practice of meditation on Brahman, the wise cognizer,
Means reflection on It, talking about It, mutually producing
Logical arguments about It – thus to be fully occupied with It alone.”
Panchadasi VII-106
You should remove the illusion of duality: an object and a subject
Notice the interconnectedness of everything.
This is Yajna, sacrifice.
Indeed, there is ultimately neither birth nor death,
If you realize that Reality that does not change.
Even though the effect is visible and the cause is not,
The connection of the two phenomena is the key
To liberation from Samsara-Chakra.
Dissect the type of knowledge you apply,
And aiming at the highest,
Then use the scalpel of the Panchagni Vidya,
To remove the ignorance, and correct the
Defect of vision caused by Avidya.
Who creates our sorrows but we do?
By disregarding the law of the Universe,
The miserable ego is born and reborn.
Oh brethren, realize your connection to the Whole,
Be brave; do not let the ocean of the world
Pummel you like a worthless creature, for in you
Dwell the lion and the swan.
Do you know what is wrong with you? Do you?
No, you don’t and there lies the essence of your troubles.
This discontent you feel is the world subjecting you,
Snaring you with myriad effects and finitude.
Hold fast to the Infinite and the pressure disappears,
Like a mirage in the desert.
Who tells you that you must die?
Mere listening of the truth is almost-always not enough,
For like any other theory forget you will,
For realization to occur this knowledge must turn into being
Through practice this Vidya must comprehend the cause
That no experience can be isolated from another.
He is not your son, she is no your sister nor she is your mother,
Neither yours or anybody’s, but the Universe’s,
Thus Bhramanda is Pindanda, as above, below.
Mind causes the World-Mind; the latter causes the world that causes you,
Thus at the end you are caused by Mind.
This is the all-encompassing, needed meditation on the primal cause.
You should keep sight of all the parts in this meditation.
Everything you see, every effect around you bespeaks
Of a tingling coming from a higher realm,
A reflection you are, an image, but not the original impression,
Which is of you in heaven.
This “Yonder World”, which is Mind is defined as the Void,
Utterly incomprehensible it is to us spatio-temporal beings,
From this seemingly void all creation comes forth, in cycles,
This Void is the primal seed of existence, the sun is traceable to it,
You must contemplate that celestial realm as a sacrifice, a fire,
As an integral part of which you are, your actions are oblation to that fire.
Your actions will decide whether interference or cooperation is caused,
Whether sacrifice is affected or negative reactions are started,
Your life ultimately becomes a sacrifice to the eternal fire,
Invoking, inviting, you elicit a certain and appropriate response,
However temporal, finite, non-eternal, all together the causes of rebirth.
This is the description of the descend into the physical embodiment,
A highly esoteric teaching, not to be taken literally in ultimate detail,
For in reality physicality is itself an idea, a feeling.
Like the feeling of having a body and a brain.
The commonality of images pertains to a common Seer.
The world does not exist just because when you wake up
Another tells you so, but because there is a Master-Idea common
To you and the other, and behind both, that never fails.
The most recondite corner of the earth, never seen by human or animal,
Still exists in that master view, so it is said to stand on its own.
Thus the world is real, not a mere illusion, mentally real it is.
The Celestial Region, the Atmosphere, the Earth, Man and Woman,
Are the five fingers of the hand of the Pachagni Vidya meditation.
A baby is born; everything is born, for better or worse,
Out of the combination of these five interrelated factors,
Chained together in cause and effect.
Repel the illusion of any local, isolated, event,
See the wisdom of the universality of all occurrences.
Where are you? You are everywhere.
To whom you belong? To the universe you belong.
Do this and that exist? That they do is the source of your bondage,
As ideas only they exist, but as changing ideas they are not real.
You should understand that the Real does not change,
Time and space are mere notions that do not affect It.
The Real is imperishable, immutable, genuine,
Ungraspable by your senses It is,
So you must learn to go beyond your senses.
What is it that your senses tell you?
Do they tell you the truth? In a scale of happiness,
Would you say that one that does what his senses like is totally happy?
Is the famous pianist that loves his music totally happy?
Is the great athlete that loves the game he plays totally satisfied?
Or isn’t the pianist rattled by his music, the athlete rattled by his game?
-
Continued from above…
Wouldn’t both the pianist and the athlete continue endlessly their play?
However there is an end to everything here in the sense world,
Moreover, your senses only give away the tip of an immense reservoir,
So you are longing for something more and are never really satisfied,
A bastard you feel and not a legitimate son.
There is not such a thing as a particular this or that or a body,
You are fooled by the report of the senses through the intellect,
First the senses, according to their own restrictions, give impressions,
Which are now affirmed by the intellect in the mind.
The original report is wrong by leaving out the invisible causes,
It happens all the time, every day, at every moment.
You become the marionette that never knows,
The glitter of the world blinds you,
Makes you go hither and thither after an elusive shadow,
Thinking yourself a separate entity, a willing
Material manifestation unconscious of your inner self.
The first sacrifice occurs as Om in the Celestial Heaven,
Followed by a reverberation felt in the lower regions of the atmosphere,
This is the second fire, which brings the rain that provides food.
The third oblation is grosser and manifests as causes in the world.
Man himself produces the fourth fire by consuming the food,
Thus energizing himself and getting ready for procreation.
The last and final oblation is woman united with man,
Which brings about the birth of a child.
These are the five fires, they are not individual events,
The womb of the woman is equal to the womb of nature,
Every time anything is born this process is followed.
You should realize that ultimately everything is mental,
Even this process and this meditation.
The solidity of an object is a feeling, a sensation.
There is not such a thing as matter, all is spirit,
You are everywhere.
Round earth apparently rotates around the sun at incredible speed,
But you, standing on the earth, do not feel it.
Do you fall from the earth surface when you are head down?
A tree at a distance appears small, however it is much bigger.
That two persons see the same object does not make the object exist.
Outside these persons, indeed there is a common seer that sees the object.
Alas, the object is never outside of mind, and mind is common to both,
As no one can comprehend a thing outside of himself.
If A causes B and B causes C, then A causes C,
However there is only A.
The attachment to the body of the newly born is such
That no memory of previous lives are remembered.
Consciousness becomes a single link of a long chain, now forgotten.
Mercilessly the play of life through Karma is imposed on this link,
To be one day finally pushed out as he was previously pushed in.
Due to perceiving the non-existent, or non-perceiving the Existent,
The darkness of ignorance (Avidya) cuts the umbilical cord of
Universality, impressing the stamp of separation, duality, and pain.
Fortunate is the Jnani who awakens to this knowledge,
For he does nothing in the face of much toil, apparently busy
He remains calm and detached from the world.
But beware of the insidious trap of so-called knowledge,
For this knowledge is not acquired through reading scriptures.
Not even by intellectual understanding of these readings wisdom dawns.
This knowledge literally means “living”, life itself,
Existence, practice, being; the person you are.
You are bound to the extent that you are ignorant of the law,
You are free to the extent that you live and abide by that law.
So see the whole cosmos in this encompassing meditation,
Transfer yourself to the Ultimate, the Universal Being,
As your breath becomes the cosmic Vital Force, as your
Intelligence transforms into the Cosmic Intelligence.
Miami, Florida
Dwapara 301 (2001)
Jettins 6 years ago
Thanks for the thought Michael and Alfredo. I appreciate this forum focused on the "Divine" side of the experience, I can't say the same about my forum. Very interesting metaphors, I think there is something to them. Things aren't logical in a way that can be quantified as one goes higher into the Astral Realms (as opposed to the lower dimensions of being that I frequent). These higher realms in my opinion are states and these states could be so variable that each could take up their own metaphor of being, as when Michael mentioned how to incarnate into a fetus and their being different ways to do this.
It appears as if objective and subjective realities merge into a purpose, the purpose then becoming the metaphor such as the Pet, a real pet Form in the Astral, and then creating the path into re-incarnation. But why a pet? well maybe because it's sense of self or mental faculties get stripped away as the life form falls into lower and lower dimensions of being. Once much of the identity slowly gets stripped away, the life form will then settle with anything or any Form such as a pet. The life form is then ready to be born into a new psyche and develop itself. This could very well be, imagine that. It appears to me that elements of "unbelievable" are indeed part of greater realities. There area also the interesting abstract dimensions in the Astral, where life forms don't look like anything from physical reality. If someone is interested in reading a bit on these abstract dimensions I could look for one in my logs.
Matt wrote:
"It sounds like you were battling an archetype of evil; a construct that your mind came up with that represented your thoughts on how evil would be personified. The kiss could have been an ironic sign to let you know that you had overcome your own fear and apprehension and had lifted the veil of illusion. Very interesting dream."
"Experiences like this are ambiguous and do not contain clearly-defined meanings. They can have different meanings for people with different viewpoints and perspectives. I certainly wouldn't imply that my interpretation is correct. This is simply the way that I would have interpreted it. Only Jettins can truly say what this experience means to him as it was a subjective experience that contains elements of his own personal unconscious."
My response:
I think I couldn't breath because the whole experience felt physical as if I was awake, therefore I created the need to breath. It was unusual for me because as it was happening I thought the experience itself was physical and I was awake, while at the same time having a deep down subconscious knowing and having my lucid mindset.
It happens to me sometimes that I have my lucid abilities, flying and telekinesis for example while still thinking I am awake and not dreaming and that I have the abilities in physical reality as well. I consider these to be false lucid dreams or having a lower level of lucidity.
I think Matt nailed it, but I would add something more. The kiss in the cheek and turning into a person to me represents the trickster element of evil. It will come in any shape or form it wishes to disguise itself in. It will try to enamorate you and make you think it's your friend. Evil or Evilness will always be part of our creative potential. In the beginning Evil required Good and Good required Evil. Without evil, good wouldn't know what good is, as it wouldn't have a way to differentiate itself. The entity knew that I knew, as it is me. But it wasn't an "entity", it was really a "state", a state that will always be part of my creative potential. I think it is part of the nature of existence. Having pushed away evil shows me that instead I wanted to embrace the good, this is reassuring. It is all about what I wish to embrace. But for how long? until I find a motive to get angry with my sister someday?
Hey Evil entity, is that why you turned into my sister? you evil you! I know your ways you creepy fool! You will have much more difficulty tricking me.
Gena 6 years ago
Jettins wrote:
"I started to feel myself as if I was turning into something else; I turned into a type of mist"
Gena's Reply:
I also had a similar dream, this was the time of my grieving process of losing my best friend. Dream: Her sister took me to her apartment, she opened the door and I was delighted to see her, she had a white bandage around her upper right arm. I thought, she doesn't know what happened so I'm not going to say anything to her. As we sat down at the kitchen table I said "I love the new haircut, you look so beautiful" and "Im sorry, I'm sorry, I didn't know you were in the same place as I was" she had loving smile, as we continue to conversate she grabbed my wrist and said "Gena, what did I tell you about my lifeline" I replied " what Milly what!" she replied, "Helia, Helia, Helia" and turned into a type of mist.
I woke up holding my husband’s wrist, saying out loud "Helia" later he said I scared him a bit, his words were, "I can't explain it but it seems like you were in the middle of two worlds". Although, she is no longer here in my physical world, I pray she doesn't take offense of me speaking about this, because I'm still trying to unlock the meaning "Helia". A medium told me it’s between me and her, but can't seem to get it out of my mind.
MiBeloved 6 years ago
Helia, Helia, Heila is ghost talk for
I am insubstantial, insubstantial, insubstantial.
I won't last! I won't last! I won't last!
I will soon disappear! I will be gone! I will be gone!
================
When she said:
"Im sorry, I'm sorry, I didn't know you were in the same place as I was" she had loving smile,
She actually meant this:
"Im sorry that you also died, I'm sorry that you are no longer on the other side because I see you on this side and you appear to be dead, I didn't know you were in the same place as I was, that you are also dead" she had loving smile,
She thought that your astral form was like hers permanently disconnected from its physical body.
She turned into mist because her astral body is not stable at this time. It shifts from one dimensional level to another rapidly. She does not have a steady existence as she would have had if she was still using a physical form.
Jettins 6 years ago
Interesting perspective.
How would someone acquire stable existence in the Realms Michael?
MiBeloved 6 years ago
Jettins' query:
How would someone acquire stable existence in the Realms Michael?
MiBeloved's Response:
The person would have to become stress-free so that the mind is not gyrating with so many ideas and imagined options. Usually you find that some people are living peacefully and stable in the astral world if they left behind an old body after living a so-called full life on earth. This is because their desires were fulfilled and they went through life in a very linear way.
So called untimely death, suicides and the like cause a person in the astral world to be in a shifty configuration which is based more or less on their erratic mental and emotional states.
Eventually however all persons on the astral side reach a stability. As soon as the person enters into the vibrational energy of the would-be parents, stability is imposed by the kundalini energy of those parents. Their energy arrests the erratic force of the deceased and causes it to enter a coma (trance stage) in which the fetus is developed in whatever species of life that person is to come out as in the new life.
Gena 6 years ago
Michael, I'm both tearing and smiling. I thank you, you finally put an end to my searching. I have closure.
Jettins 6 years ago
I am glad you have closure Gena!
Indeed Michael. It appears that some people seem to be jumping into memories and re-living them as well. At certain moments they will be more open to new ideas and at other they do not. I have also seen older people living in a linear and stable fashion yet at the same time being extremely closed off for anything else.
Thanks for the thoughts!
