Bad Karma
Meditationtime Forum Post
Date: Posted 3 years before Jul 25, 2016
MiBeloved 3 years ago
Open question from Von at LinkedIn:
How many life times does it take to use up all of one’s bad karma?
I have heard that it can be done in one life time to hundreds of life times?
Also not everyone believes in Karma and that is ok, but the question is about Karma if you do believe in it?
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MiBeloved’s Response:
According to the fine print in Bhagavad Gita, karma is really introduced by, enacted by and practically figured by material nature and not by the individual souls who are in the material nature. Therefore the idea that I have karma or that he or she has karma is really just a way of speaking only.
It is like when I say I have a passport. Actually there is a declaration in the document which states that it belongs to the government. It is mine only superficially and the government too expects me to maintain the passport and hold it in my possession at the convenience of the government.
In one consideration it is not mine, and yet they force me to pay for it. They say it is theirs and yet, if I do not have it at the airport when travelling, they might arrest me because I do not possess it. If I damage it they might issue a charge saying that I defaced a government document.
Karma is like that in that it does not really belong to me or to he, and yet I am held responsible for it.
So the question of finishing bad karma makes no sense when you consider it from that angle. Since material nature (prakriti) operates it, no limited entity can stop it. Material nature operates a sort of meat grinder operation where everything which is coming out of the grinder goes back into it and comes out again, like a perpetual motion machine, so there is no question of ending my bad karmas. That is never going to happen unless I leave the realm of material nature.
The plant grows and its discarded leaves are converted into organic matter which the plants use to create more leaves. Karma is like that, where material nature compose my actions and then plow that back into my future existence again. This is repeatedly done and I have no control over the process except superficially.
When a particular spirit leaves material nature, then that person’s ongoing good and bad karma are left behind in the material world. This means in both the gross and subtle material energy (prakriti and mula-prakriti). The way to get rid of bad karma is to leave material nature. So long as we are in material nature a percentage of bad karma will be there because the nature of this situation is like that. It always has a three composite reality in varying proportions of sattva guna, raja guna and tamo guna.
Tamo guna and raja guna sponsor bad karma and that can be decreased if we are super-careful. But a limited entity cannot guarantee that he or she will always be super-careful. Why?
Because limit means limited. It means that you can be put into a situation where the supports for sattva guna behavior leave you. Then you will be forced to operate in this existence from a vicious position.
god today!
dog tomorrow!
Right now I am a nice guy. But can I guarantee that nature will sponsor me like this forever with this type of human body in this type of culture etc.?
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Here are some verses from Bhagavad Gita which might shed some light on the situation in material nature (my translation):
प्रकृतिं पुरुषं चैव
विद्ध्यनादी उभावपि ।
विकारांश्च गुणांश्चैव
विद्धि प्रकृतिसंभवान्॥१३.२०॥
prakṛtiṁ puruṣaṁ caiva
viddhyanādī ubhāvapi
vikārāṁśca guṇāṁścaiva
viddhi prakṛtisaṁbhavān (13.20)
prakṛtiṁ — material nature; puruṣaṁ — spiritual personality; caiva = ca — and + eva — indeed; viddhi — know; anādī — beginningless; ubhau — both; api — also; vikārān — changes of the living space (see 13.4); ca — and; guṇāṁ — moods; caiva = ca— and + eva — indeed; viddhi — know; prakṛtisaṁbhavān = prakṛti — material nature + saṁbhavān — produced
Know that both material nature and the spiritual personality are beginningless, and know that the changes of the living space and the moods of material nature are produced from material nature. (13.20)
कार्यकारणकर्तृत्वे
हेतुः प्रकृतिरुच्यते ।
पुरुषः सुखदुःखानां
भोक्तृत्वे हेतुरुच्यते ॥१३.२१॥
kāryakāraṇakartṛtve
hetuḥ prakṛtirucyate
puruṣaḥ sukhaduḥkhānāṁ
bhoktṛtve heturucyate (13.21)
kāryakaraṇakartṛtve = kārya — created work + karaṇa — sensual potency as a cause + kartṛtve — agency; hetuḥ — cause; prakṛtiḥ — material nature; ucyate — is said; puruṣaḥ — the spiritual personality; sukhaduḥkhānāṁ — of pleasure and pain; bhoktṛtve — in terms of experiencing; hetuḥ — cause; ucyate — is said
Material nature is said to be the cause in terms of created work, sensual potency and agency. The spiritual personality is said to be the cause in terms of experiencing pleasure and pain. (13.21)
पुरुषः प्रकृतिस्थो हि
भुङ्क्ते प्रकृतिजान्गुणान् ।
कारणं गुणसङ्गोऽस्य
सदसद्योनिजन्मसु ॥१३.२२॥
puruṣaḥ prakṛtistho hi
bhuṅkte prakṛtijānguṇān
kāraṇaṁ guṇasaṅgo'sya
sadasadyonijanmasu (13.22)
puruṣaḥ — spirit; prakṛtistho - prakṛtisthaḥ — situated in material nature; hi — indeed: bhuṅkte — experiencing; prakṛtijān — produced on material nature; guṇān — the modes of material nature; kāraṇaṁ — the source; guṇasaṅgo = guṇasaṅgaḥ — attachment to the influence of material nature; 'sya = asya —of it: sadasadyonijanmasu = sad (sat) — reality + asad (asat) — unrealistic + yoni — birth situations + janmasu — birth
The spirit, being situated in material nature, experiences the modes which were produced by that nature. Attachment to the modes is the cause of the spirit's emergence from realistic and unrealistic situations. (13.22)
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Continued from above.......
Here is Krishna’s suggestion about what to do to get rid of karma:
श्रीभगवानुवाच
ऊर्ध्वमूलमधःशाखम्
अश्वत्थं प्राहुरव्ययम् ।
छन्दांसि यस्य पर्णानि
यस्तं वेद स वेदवित् ॥१५.१॥
śrībhagavānuvāca
ūrdhvamūlamadhaḥśākham
aśvatthaṁ prāhuravyayam
chandāṁsi yasya parṇāni
yastaṁ veda sa vedavit (15.1)
śṛī bhagavān — The Blessed Lord; uvāca — said; ūrdhvamūtam = urdhva —upward + mūlam — root; adhaḥśākham = adhaḥ — below + śākham — branch; aśvatthaṁ — ashvattha tree; prāhuḥ — the yogī sages say; avyayam — imperishable; chandāṁsi -Vedic hymns; yasya — or what which; parṇāni — leaves; yaḥ — who; taṁ — this; veda — knows; sa = saḥ— he; vedavit —knower of the Vedas
The Blessed Lord said: The yogi sages say that there is an imperishable Ashvattha tree which has a root going upwards and a trunk downwards, the leaves of which are the Vedic hymns. He who knows this is a knower of the Vedas. (15.1)
अधश्चोर्ध्वं प्रसृतास्तस्य शाखा
गुणप्रवृद्धा विषयप्रवालाः ।
अधश्च मूलान्यनुसंततानि
कर्मानुबन्धीनि मनुष्यलोके ॥१५.२॥
adhaścordhvaṁ prasṛtāstasya śākhā
guṇapravṛddhā viṣayapravālāḥ
adhaśca mūlānyanusaṁtatāni
karmānubandhīni manuṣyaloke (15.2)
Adhaścordhvaṁ = adhaḥ — downward + ca — and + urdhvam — upward; prasṛtāh — widely spreading; tasya — of it; śākhā — branches; guṇa — mundane influence; pravrddhā — nourished; viṣayapravālāḥ = viṣaya — attractive objects + pravālāḥ — sprouts; adhaśca = adhaḥ — below + ca — and; mūlāni — roots;— stretched out; karmānubandhīni = karmā — action + anubandhīni — promoting; manuṣyaloke = manuṣya — of human being + loke — in the world
Branches spread from it, upwards and downwards. It is nourished by the mundane influences and the attractive objects are its sprouts. The roots are spread below, promoting action in the world of human beings. (15.2)
न रूपमस्येह तथोपलभ्यते
नान्तो न चादिर्न च संप्रतिष्ठा ।
अश्वत्थमेनं सुविरूढमूलम्
असङ्गशस्त्रेण दृढेन छित्त्वा ॥१५.३
na rūpamasyeha tathopalabhyate
nānto na cādirna ca saṁpratiṣṭhā
aśvatthamenaṁ suvirūḍhamūlam
asaṅgaśastreṇa dṛḍhena chittvā (15.3)
na — not; rūpam — form; asyeha - asya — of it + iha — in this dimension; tathopalabhyate = tathā — thus + upalabhyate — it is perceived; nānto = nāntah = na —- not + antaḥ — end; na — nor; cādiḥ = ca — and + ādiḥ — end; na — nor; ca — and; saṁpratiṣṭhā — foundation; aśvatthaṁ — ashvattha tree; enam — this; suvirūḍhamūtam = suvirūḍha — well-developed + mūlam — root; asaṅgaśastreṇa = asaṅga — non-attachment + śastreṇa — with the axe; dṛḍhena — with the strong; chittvā — cutting down
Its form is not perceived in this dimension, nor its end, nor beginning nor foundation. With the strong ax of non-attachment, cut down this Ashvattha tree with its well-developed roots. (15.3)
ततः पदं तत्परिमार्गितव्यं
यस्मिन्गता न निवर्तन्ति भूयः ।
तमेव चाद्यं पुरुषं प्रपद्ये
यतः प्रवृत्तिः प्रसृता पुराणी.॥१५.४॥
tataḥ padaṁ tatparimārgitavyaṁ
yasmingatā na nivartanti bhūyaḥ
tameva cādyaṁ puruṣaṁ prapadye
yataḥ pravṛttiḥ prasṛtā purāṇī (15.4)
tataḥ — then; padaṁ— please; tat— that; parimārgitavyaṁ — to be sought; yasmin — to which; gatā — some; na — not; nivartanti — they return; bhūyaḥ — again; tam — that; eva — indeed; cādyaṁ = ca — and + ādyaṁ — primal; puruṣaṁ — person; prapadye — I take shelter; yataḥ — from whom; pravrttiḥ — creation; prasṛtā — emerged; purāṇī — in primeval limes
Then that place is to be sought, to which having gone, the spirits do not return to this world again. One should think: I take shelter with that Primal Person, from Whom the creation emerged in primeval times. (15.4)
