Continued from above.......

devaPriya Yogini 3 years ago

This is very interesting for me to read.

I can't say that I know one single so called "Buddhist" that even takes the reasonably simple austerity of not partaking in killing by eating meat.  Some use the middle way excuse too.  I wonder why more don't see the need for moving off the mid path where everyone else is, and on to bigger and better things.

Neo_Yogi 3 years ago

MiBeloved wrote:

If Buddha could not become enlightened without first doing the austerities, nobody else will become enlightening without his personal assistance and micro-managed guidance

Neo_Yogi's Query:

Personal assistance? Could you elaborate on this?

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MiBeloved wrote:

Let me clear this up again:

The Middle way was design for people who could not initially take up the austerities, who would be afraid of it, and then that person once he begins, he will see for himself that he must do the austerities to be successful and he must do specific austerities, even ones that are different to what Buddha did, because it has to be tailoredto his individual sensuality and individual extrovert habits.

(…) His mind was already seized by the Brahma deity for him to fulfill the mission for which he took the body which was to design a path that was not as frightening to the average human being.

Neo_Yogi's Reply:

Said like that it sounds like the Buddha's Path is easy for everyone. As with any other spiritual path, one has to make sacrifices for being successful. Not everyone is ready or capable of leaving this worldly life in search for the unknown.

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MiBeloved said:

Furthermore, the whole enlightenment thing about Buddha is a fraud because the guy is a divine being from day one, and his enlightenment is done to set an example not because he needs to be enlightened. He is an avatar. With avatars one has to separate out what they do as example and what they do for themselves.

Neo_Yogi's Reply:

In the Pali texts he explains his quest for enlightenment through previous lives, but he never mentions being enlightened already.

Neo_Yogi 3 years ago

Alfredo said:

Neo:

Please check the book about Acariya Mun. It is here in pdf in the file section.

This is a book that brings tears to my eyes every single time I read it.

Neo_Yogi's Reply:

Hello Alfredo,

As I mentioned already, I have read this book and loved it :)

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Alfredo said:

A further question: What have the Buddhists following that "middle path", obtained (compared to the Buddha), besides talking about it? Please let me know what that is.

Neo_Yogi's Reply:

I guess that the very same that the followers of Mahavira, Christ, Krishna, etc. get when they only talk about them or their teachings but never get down to business.

MiBeloved 3 years ago

Neo_Yogi's Query:

Personal assistance? Could you elaborate on this?

MiBeloved's Response:

This means what it says that a person has to get assistance from Gautam Buddha himself just as he assisted many of his disciples.

His personal influence has to be there.

He is not physically present except through icons but he can be reached in the subtle existence. This is a particular individual with a particular spiritual influence.

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Neo_Yogi's Comment:

In the Pali texts he explains his quest for enlightenment through previous lives, but he never mentions being enlightened already.

MiBeloved’s Response:

It is not the quest for enlightenment that is in question. It is who is pursuing the quest. What sort of spirit is it, from which category of the spirits?

Suppose ten people are taking a war helicopter course but one of these is the grandson of the queen of England, then it is not a matter of just taking the course, it is a matter of who is taking the course.

The grandson of the queen has privileges which the other soldiers are not permitted.

We have to look at who traverses and not the course itself.

Because he is part of the royal family, they have given him a special parachute in event that the chopper goes down and the other soldiers do not have that. And they may never realize that there is a difference in the equipment he is using as compared to their own, unless the chopper goes down.

We find out that Buddha was a different kind of being in the way he reacted to the traumas of physical life, a way in which we usually do not react. We have to stop and think about it before we can give up physical life, and even then we are at a loss of what to do to fix it. So there is no comparison between this individual and ourselves and the sooner we can get into our heads the better we will be.

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Even the criminally motivated Hiranyakashipu was recognized by the Brahma deity as not being an ordinary run-of-the-mill kind of spirit and Brahma told him that no one in the past or the future did anything as exceptional as he. So this means that we have to take a look at the who is doing what and not at the what which is being done by who.

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SB 7.3.14: O King, being thus informed by the demigods, the most powerful Lord Brahmā, accompanied by Bhṛgu, Dakṣa and other great sages, immediately started for the place where Hiraṇyakaśipu was performing his penances and austerities.

SB 7.3.15-16: Lord Brahmā, who is carried by a swan airplane, at first could not see where Hiraṇyakaśipu was, for Hiraṇyakaśipu's body was covered by an anthill and by grass and bamboo sticks. Because Hiraṇyakaśipu had been there for a long time, the ants had devoured his skin, fat, flesh and blood. Then Lord Brahmā and the demigods spotted him, resembling a cloud-covered sun, heating all the world by his austerity. Struck with wonder, Lord Brahmā began to smile and then addressed him as follows.

SB 7.3.17: Lord Brahmā said: O son of Kaśyapa Muni, please get up, please get up. All good fortune unto you. You are now perfect in the performance of your austerities, and therefore I may give you a benediction. You may now ask from me whatever you desire, and I shall try to fulfill your wish.

SB 7.3.18: I have been very much astonished to see your endurance. In spite of being eaten and bitten by all kinds of worms and ants, you are keeping your life air circulating within your bones. Certainly this is wonderful.

SB 7.3.19: Even saintly persons like Bhṛgu, born previously, could not perform such severe austerities, nor will anyone in the future be able to do so. Who within these three worlds can sustain his life without even drinking water for one hundred celestial years?

SB 7.3.20: My dear son of Diti, with your great determination and austerity you have done what was impossible even for great saintly persons, and thus I have certainly been conquered by you.

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It was irrelevant as to what Hiranyakashipu did which appeared to be what everyone else does, because the guy was not within the bounds of the Brahma who is the creator-god of this system we exist in. The guy was an alien and Brahma recognized this because the guy was in the process of controlling Brahma’s creation with no reference or authority from Brahma and based only on the guy’s personal creative austerities.

If you do not realize that Buddha was in a different category of spirit, you won’t be able to take his assistance sincerely, and your spiritual progress which is based on his life will be ineffective. Without his personal assistance you won’t make any substantial progress on his path. No one did it during his life time without him or without one of his advanced disciple’s assistance.

A void won’t give that assistance, nor will a nihilistic attitude. Buddha is not a void or a nothing. He is a specific person with specific abilities eternally. He is not dead. He is not out of existence as a person right now. His unique access to transcendental states has not changed and someone else, most other persons do not have it and can only get it by taking assistance from him personally.

Alfredo 3 years ago

Neo:

Fair enough. Good answer. Please keep on asking, many are enjoying the interesting interchange.

As per austerities, without them there is really no real yoga.