Continued from above…

MiBeloved wrote:

There is really no need for anyone to insert their fingers into another’s astral body but this may happen if you are expecting such occurrences to happen. One astral body can pass through another astral body just as we know for sure that radio frequencies pass through wall and even pass through the same space in which other such frequencies are broadcasted.

Jettins Reply:

It may happen if someone's expecting it to happen we create our reality in the astral realms after all. This might have come from an alien abduction book I read. To me the inserting of the fingers represents a metaphoric representation of what I expected at an unconscious level direct contact to be like. At the same time, to me it does not invalidate the experience as being any less real, or having any less substance.

It appears that subtle forces will adapt to our ever changing psychological self.  Yet this does not invalidate their origin even if unknown. Which is why when attempting to explain the overall process that generates experience in the astral states of being, I would rather use words such as: intention, purpose, and emotion (intentional and unintentional, yet it appears to me to have a discernible pattern, or path if... You can find more of my thoughts regarding this in my forum). I tried not to get into the ins and outs of things in the experience itself as it would've gotten very messy and more difficult to read, but it's great as a follow-up thanks for pointing it out.

The questions to have in mind are: At what point does a 'force' become a separate entity? Would it require redefining things to include parallel consciousness independently existing in a multidimensional field, yet part of us?. Is our psychic field projecting in the astral all the time, what's it capable of? In a dynamic reality, what is the end of you and beginning of something outside of yourself? What are the boundaries of the psyche or state of being, and the realm in which we reside? Assuming these cannot exist fully separate, everything must affect each other, how do we know human consciousness is not a manifestation of a greater construct, or cosmic play if you will?

I have my own thoughts on this, but I would like to read about what others think about it. I will give you a hint about it now. Re-envisioning it as constriction and boundless can capture its essence, i think.

=====================================

MiBeloved wrote:

If someone passed through your astral form, it means that his or her astral body was in another dimension, in a different frequency. There are trillions of these frequencies.

Jettins Reply:

It's amazing isn't it? Could you share your philosophical take on the nature of reality? Thanks, have a great day!

MiBeloved 6 years ago

MiBeloved wrote: Is there is a system in the body which causes astral projection?

Jettins Reply:

I don't know for sure except for what I've read in the literature and I've read irreconcilable differences. I take an experience-based approach to understanding the subtleties of my experiences. Maybe this forum can help me better understand what I'm lacking.

MiBeloved's Response:

There is a system in the body which causes astral projection. It is the same system which conducts involuntary functions like breathing, digesting and evacuating. Even though we can jump in and operate these functions, the higher reality is that these systems operate of their own accord with or without our assistance or temporary interruption.

Astral projection is taking place every time the physical system sleeps but the person involved may not be aware of it. The same psychic mechanism which causes drowsiness and then sleep, is the system which regulates astral projection.

The real take on astral projection is not doing it, but realizing when it is done, moving from being unconscious to conscious when the astral body is about to separate or has already been displaced out of the physical form.

Have you ever realized that you are breathing and wondered how it is happening without your permission, without your input?

=====================================

MiBeloved wrote:

If someone passed through your astral form, it means that his or her astral body was in another dimension, in a different frequency. There are trillions of these frequencies.

Jettins Reply:

It's amazing isn't it? Could you share your philosophical take on the nature of reality? Thanks, have a great day!

MiBeloved's Response:

In a sense everything is real, and that is the nature of reality.

Whatever there is, is either a cause or an effect and in either case there is affectional reality. The ultimate cause is the Reality but anything which was produced from it has value because of a connection with that ultimate cause.

Values are not nonsense. Values are the way of gauging how near or far an effect is from its cause. Of course anyone can make a mistake in calculating such value but our mistakes do not change the fact that everything is interconnected ultimately and linked in varying values to the supreme cause.

Look at a dollar bill. It is just a piece of paper with a $1 written on it. As paper and ink it is not even worth a penny, and yet because it is was issued by the Federal Reserve, it is worth 100 pennies. To say that it is just worth one penny or less is to avoid the stark reality which is that it has the value of 100 pennies to the Federal Authorities who run the country.

In the same way the varying factors which we encounter are all reality because everything has to have a reference either directly and indirectly to the Primal Cause.

In the Mahabharata, Drona was told a false statement about his son’s death. We can say that it was just illusion but the consequences belie such a simple explanation of what happened. People knew that Drona took a vow that he would stop fighting on the battlefield, if his son Ashvattama was killed.

When however the opposing army realized that Drona would kill their soldiers and they would lose the battle, Krishna advised that it be announced that the son of Drona was dead. One person, to help in this illusion, killed an elephant who was Ashvatthama’s name sake. The elephant did nothing wrong and yet because of having a similar name, it was killed. See the power of illusion even in a mere name, that one’s life can be taken because of it, coincidentally. Then this elephant killer announced that Ashvattama was dead. He knew well that it was an elephant but his intention was to make Drona think that Drona’s son was dead.

When Drona heard about it and heard who said it, he kept on fighting, saying something to the effect that he did not trust the warrior who announced the death of his son. This person was Bhima, whom Drona disliked and considered to be an unreliable witness.

So then Krishna went to Yudhishthira and encouraged him to announce that Ashvattama was dead. Krishna explained that Yudhishthira was a reliable witness and if he said the fact, then Drona would believe it and would stop fighting immediately, thus sparing their army.

So then Yudhishthira, who was said to be Good Behavior Personified, stated that Ashvattama was surely dead. Then and there Drona put aside his armor and weapons and sat in lotus posture to enter into yogic trance until his body would die.

The point is that even an untruth has a reality behind it. It not a mere illusion. Because the untruth was spoken by a reliable witness it had the force of the truth itself. Therefore we should always know for sure that even illusions are based on reality, and can definitely affect us. There is no such thing as no value or no judgment except in our silly little minds.

Ask the sun about the value of the earth and then ask the earth about the value of the sun. There had better be value there or we will all be finished. The sun judged that until it is finished, the earth will forever spin around it and that is exactly what is taking place.

Jettins 6 years ago

MiBeloved wrote:

The real take on astral projection is not doing it, but realizing when it is done, moving from being unconscious to conscious when the astral body is about to separate

Jettins Reply:

What a great way of saying it. The way I think of it is to create the conditions in our mind that can help us detect or realize our state.

=====================================

MiBeloved wrote:

There is a system in the body which causes astral projection. It is the same system which conducts involuntary functions like breathing, digesting and evacuating.

Have you ever realized that you are breathing and wondered how it is happening without your permission, without your input?

Jettins Reply:

Indeed I have.  It implies to me that my system has given me full permission for astral projection.

=====================================

MiBeloved wrote:

The ultimate cause is the Reality but anything which was produced from it has value because of a connection with that ultimate cause.

Jettins Reply:

Would you say the value gain is what is understood from the experience? Which is what created it in the first place?

=====================================

MiBeloved wrote:

Values are the way of gauging how near or far an effect is from its cause.

Jettins Reply:

To me this implies there is an underlying evolutionary process.

=====================================

MiBeloved wrote:

In the same way the varying factors which we encounter are all reality because everything has to have a reference either directly and indirectly to the Primal Cause.

Jettins Reply:

It makes so much sense, that’s again for you’re in depth response. I wonder what Bhima was offered in return for lying to Drona.

MiBeloved 6 years ago

Bhima got his satisfaction because he wanted to see Drona in a deceased condition.

That alone was enough of a reward to him.

-------------------

And yes the value gain is  what is culled from the experience.

It is stated nicely by Patanjali in his Yoga Sutras:

prakāśa kriyā sthiti śăla

ṁ bhūtendriyātmakaṁ

bhogāpavargārtha

ṁ dṛśyam

What is perceived is of the nature of the mundane elements and the sense organs and is formed in clear perception, action or stability. Its purpose is to give experience or to allow liberation. (2.18)