Continued from above…

MiBeloved 5 years ago

Colleen,

That is already in India under the title of dvaitadvaita and then later there is also what is called inconceivable oneness and difference as Achintyabedabeda tattva by Lord Chaitanya.

So this larger reality is already there in India.

But the best statement about this was given by Krishna to Uddhava who inquired about it. Here is Krishna's opinion on that (my translation):

Uddhava Gita English Chapter 17

The qualified Uddhava said: How many essential factors, were explained by the yogi sages, O Lord of the Universe? Here in this world, I heard that You spoke of nine, eleven, five and three contributory causes. (17.1)

Some explain twenty-six and others twenty-five, some say seven, some nine or some six, some four and others eleven. Some explain seventeen, some sixteen and some thirteen. (17.2)

What is the intention of the yogi sages, in declaring so many varied listings of the essential factors, O immortal One? You may tell us. (17.3)

The Blessed Lord said: According to what the brahmins say; it is proper, since all categories are represented. And what is impossible for those who speak since they are reliant on My bewildering energy; (17.4)

“This is not as you say. It is as I explain.” So it is said by those who argue over the causes, and who are influenced by My potencies which are difficult to transcend. (17.5)

From the cosmic disturbance, the contention of the disputants regarding the subject, is caused. When one attains tranquility and sense control, the argument vanishes. And after that the dispute ends. (17.6)

O best of the personalities, it is due to mutual inter-penetration of the essential factors, that the enumeration of cause and effect is described according to the particular speaker who desires to explain it. (17.7)

Even in one category, all other factors are seen to be included, either in the previous cause or in the latter effect. (17.8)

Therefore we accept the previous cause and latter effect given by those who are eagerly contending, just as it is figured out by their mouth due to the reasons of relativity. (17.9)

Due to a lack of mystic experience or accurate intuition, a person who is endowed with a beginningless ignorance, must acquire the in-depth knowledge of the spirit, from another person who knows the factors of reality and who gives true information. (17.10)

In this case, there is not the least difference, between the individual soul and God. This idea of a separate factor is considered futile. And knowledge is regarded as a feature of material nature. (17.11)

The Primal Material Nature is the equilibrium of the diversified mundane energy, which is not a part of the spirits, and which are defined as the clarifying, impulsive and retardative influences. These are the causes of maintenance, origination and destruction respectively. (17.12)

It is stated that knowledge is the outcome of the clarifying influence. Cultural activity comes from the impulsive force. Ignorance is derived from the retardative influence. Time is regarded as the agitator of the mundane energy. Personal tendency springs from the sexually-charged cosmic force. (17.13)

Spirit, imperceptive material nature, perceptible material nature, the sense of assertion, outer space, planetary atmosphere, light, liquid and solid substances, are the nine factors declared by Me. (17.14)

Hearing ability, touching sense, vision, smelling sense and tasting sense are detecting potencies. Vocal cords, hands, sexual organ, anus and legs are working organs, O friend. The mind belongs to both categories. (17.15)

Sound, surface, flavor, odor and shape are the categories of sensual pursuit. Movement, speech, sexual arousal, excretion and manual dexterity are the skills of the working organs. (17.16)

In the beginning of this creation, material nature appearing as causal energy and producing forms, through the varied mundane influences, such as the clarifying force and the other features, exhibited itself. But the primal spirit, unchanged as it is, observes this. (17.17)

The essential factors such as the causal energy and the other components, while being transformed, and being surcharged with potencies by the observational powers of the Primal Person, combine and form the enclosed universe. This is due to the potency which developed in material nature. (17.18)

It is said in yet another view, that there are seven factors, consisting of five physical states beginning with outer space, together with mental knowledge and the self who is the reference point of both factors. From these seven factors, the body, sense organs and vital energy emerges. (17.19)

It is said in this other view, that there are six factors, namely the five physical states and the sixth which is the Supreme Person. Being endowed with those five elements, which were produced from Himself, and having created this world, He entered it. (17.20)

If even as some state, there are four factors, like light producing-combustion, liquids, solids, together with the self from which they are produced; then by these the manifestation of the productions emerged. (17.21)

In the listing of seventeen factors, the gross elements, subtle ones, the five sense organs, the five working organs, the one mind and the soul, are traditionally accounted as the seventeen components. (17.22)

Similarly, in the listing of sixteen factors, there is the spirit which is identified only as the mind. Then there is the listing of thirteen factors which are the five gross elements, the five sense organs, the mind and the soul. (17.23)

In the list of eleven factors, this soul, the five universal gross elements, and the five sensory powers are accounted, while the eight exhibitions of material nature and the primal personality alone are accounted as nine factors. (17.24)

Thus the various listings of the contributing factors were proposed by the yogi sages. All of these are logical because of scientific research. What lacks relevance in the ideas of those who are learned? (17.25)