Peter PughSurely age brings experience and more significantly new perspectives? In short, a view from a different mountain in ones life. As such much is incommensurable.
Priscilla Estes, Kundalini Yoga Teacher, IKYTASee the books, The Best is Yet to Come, Aging Gracefully with Yoga50plus by Willem Wittstamm mail@yoga50plus.de. And the Yoga of Aging andChronic Illness: Transforming a Curse into a Million Rays of LIght by Jivan Joti Kaur Khalsa Ph.D. No matter what, getting old is a challenge and we will never be young again.
Caroline Barnes@Michael: but in so far as one can actually find that true self and not identify with the social identity add-ons which we carried since birth and also from many past lives.
As i am nearing 65 myself, all this is very much what is happening for me. I used to think, when I still had a strong young body that as long as I did my yoga I wouldn't have to worry, haha!
I have meditated and contemplated about this a lot. Is it a blessing or is it a curse? If it is not a curse how is it a blessing? I have come to the conclusion that the passing of physical strength, the passing of being in the body without constant reminders of its mortality is to give us an extra push in the direction of infinity, to shift our focus, getting ready for the coming transition. How one responds to this situation is very important for the transition and for future rebirths. If one is trying to stay young regardless, and just focus on the body, plastic surgery etc. one will have to expend vast amounts of energy
Caroline Barnesone will have to expend vast amounts of energy for vastly diminishing returns. If instead one focuses that energy onto preparing internally for the next step then it does become a blessing.
As long as I was strong and healthy I would always rely on that strength to get me through. When the strength wanes it gives me an impetus to shift my focus. Once I start to do that I have found that that shift of focus or attention begins a very interesting process, and one that I would never have accessed as my young strong self.
Andree LeratGreat insight. However the experience of self in youth is the stepping stone to real wisdom as proven by your post.
Mohanakrishnan RThe "infinity" or "Whole", "Brahman", "Self" etc are all logical abstractions IMO, which though true in a logical sense serve no practical purpose in solving the various problems associated with our existence. Matter (Acit) and Energy (Ishwara) being "interconvertible" and "life" (Cit) being nothing but a product of interaction between matter and energy -- In the ultimate sense a human being is not a human being but a temporary state of interaction between matter and energy - Sunlight was nothing but matter which in turn could have been energy --- one can go on and on. Yes "Logically" "Jagat Mithya Brahma Satya" (Manifest universe is untrue and Brahman alone is the truth), where Brahman is the collective term of the "whole" system of matter, life and energy. 'Realizing the self" is nothing but logical acceptance of the comparatively transient state of our existence and egoistic I cannot exist in the ultimate analysis. BUT WHAT THIS REALIZATION CAN MEAN IN PRACTICAL TERMS?
Mohanakrishnan RWill problems associated with old age like loss of bone and muscle, weakness, depleting immunity etc be solved through "Realization of the self" -- That is through logical acceptance of the extremely short lived? Sorry the egoistic "I" is a reality as long as it exists however ridiculously short the duration may be. THis "I" exists in a much smaller frame of reference in the overall context. That does not mean that it can be ignored. For a moth that lives for minutes even a millisecond is a substantial duration compared to a human who lives for say 100 years. You cannot tell the moth that compared to a human it (moth) does not exist! Likewise a star which takes billions of years to evolve and for which hundred years is immaterial cannot tell the human that humans do not exist.
Mohanakrishnan RThat is why Yoga Sutra does not stop with the logical ideas of "Samadhi" that is discovery of one's own nature (Drashtu) by clearing the mind of its "misconceptions" (Vritti) which distort the perceptions. (Samadhi Pada 3 and 4). This is at a far higher frame of reference. Life is much more than ivory tower speculation of arcane ideas however logical they may be and exists at a far lower frame of reference. That is what Samadhi Pada emphasizes in verse 33,
"All that is mutable in human beings (chitta) is harmonized through the cultivation of love (maitri), helpfulness (karuna), conviviality (mudita) and imperturbability (upeksha) in situations that are happy, painful, successful or unfortunate."
Note all terms used are "relative" (Maitri, Karuna etc) and it apparently contradicts the concept of "self realization"
Mohanakrishnan RYama, Niyama, Asana etc are the best practices recommended at the lower frame of reference. Pursuit of the knowledge of the self is a far higher level of reference. Both are true though the former is more relevant. That is where Mr.Barnes errs when he says "As i am nearing 65 myself, all this is very much what is happening for me. I used to think, when I still had a strong young body that as long as I did my yoga I wouldn't have to worry, haha! " Can he confirm that wool gathering and speculation of a logical idea do effectively substitute orderly life and mental health? Definitely adherence to a proper social code of conduct (Yama), clean habits (Niyama), exercises (Asana, Pranayama), improvement of mindset through mediation and concentration are far better common sense pointers to a healthy and happy old age than empty speculation with no purpose!
PS I am over 65 and I attribute what I consider to be my good health (Physical and mental) to the practice of Yoga:)
Peter Pugh Surely age brings experience and more significantly new perspectives? In short, a view from a different mountain in ones life. As such much is incommensurable.
Priscilla Estes, Kundalini Yoga Teacher, IKYTA See the books, The Best is Yet to Come, Aging Gracefully with Yoga50plus by Willem Wittstamm mail@yoga50plus.de. And the Yoga of Aging andChronic Illness: Transforming a Curse into a Million Rays of LIght by Jivan Joti Kaur Khalsa Ph.D. No matter what, getting old is a challenge and we will never be young again.
Caroline Barnes @Michael: but in so far as one can actually find that true self and not identify with the social identity add-ons which we carried since birth and also from many past lives.
As i am nearing 65 myself, all this is very much what is happening for me. I used to think, when I still had a strong young body that as long as I did my yoga I wouldn't have to worry, haha!
I have meditated and contemplated about this a lot. Is it a blessing or is it a curse? If it is not a curse how is it a blessing? I have come to the conclusion that the passing of physical strength, the passing of being in the body without constant reminders of its mortality is to give us an extra push in the direction of infinity, to shift our focus, getting ready for the coming transition. How one responds to this situation is very important for the transition and for future rebirths. If one is trying to stay young regardless, and just focus on the body, plastic surgery etc. one will have to expend vast amounts of energy
Caroline Barnes one will have to expend vast amounts of energy for vastly diminishing returns. If instead one focuses that energy onto preparing internally for the next step then it does become a blessing.
As long as I was strong and healthy I would always rely on that strength to get me through. When the strength wanes it gives me an impetus to shift my focus. Once I start to do that I have found that that shift of focus or attention begins a very interesting process, and one that I would never have accessed as my young strong self.
Andree Lerat Great insight. However the experience of self in youth is the stepping stone to real wisdom as proven by your post.
Mohanakrishnan R The "infinity" or "Whole", "Brahman", "Self" etc are all logical abstractions IMO, which though true in a logical sense serve no practical purpose in solving the various problems associated with our existence. Matter (Acit) and Energy (Ishwara) being "interconvertible" and "life" (Cit) being nothing but a product of interaction between matter and energy -- In the ultimate sense a human being is not a human being but a temporary state of interaction between matter and energy - Sunlight was nothing but matter which in turn could have been energy --- one can go on and on. Yes "Logically" "Jagat Mithya Brahma Satya" (Manifest universe is untrue and Brahman alone is the truth), where Brahman is the collective term of the "whole" system of matter, life and energy. 'Realizing the self" is nothing but logical acceptance of the comparatively transient state of our existence and egoistic I cannot exist in the ultimate analysis. BUT WHAT THIS REALIZATION CAN MEAN IN PRACTICAL TERMS?
Mohanakrishnan R Will problems associated with old age like loss of bone and muscle, weakness, depleting immunity etc be solved through "Realization of the self" -- That is through logical acceptance of the extremely short lived? Sorry the egoistic "I" is a reality as long as it exists however ridiculously short the duration may be. THis "I" exists in a much smaller frame of reference in the overall context. That does not mean that it can be ignored. For a moth that lives for minutes even a millisecond is a substantial duration compared to a human who lives for say 100 years. You cannot tell the moth that compared to a human it (moth) does not exist! Likewise a star which takes billions of years to evolve and for which hundred years is immaterial cannot tell the human that humans do not exist.
Mohanakrishnan R That is why Yoga Sutra does not stop with the logical ideas of "Samadhi" that is discovery of one's own nature (Drashtu) by clearing the mind of its "misconceptions" (Vritti) which distort the perceptions. (Samadhi Pada 3 and 4). This is at a far higher frame of reference. Life is much more than ivory tower speculation of arcane ideas however logical they may be and exists at a far lower frame of reference. That is what Samadhi Pada emphasizes in verse 33,
मैत्री करुणा मुदितोपेक्षाणांसुखदुःख पुण्यापुण्यविषयाणां भावनातः चित्तप्रसादनम् ॥३३॥
"All that is mutable in human beings (chitta) is harmonized through the cultivation of love (maitri), helpfulness (karuna), conviviality (mudita) and imperturbability (upeksha) in situations that are happy, painful, successful or unfortunate."
Note all terms used are "relative" (Maitri, Karuna etc) and it apparently contradicts the concept of "self realization"
Mohanakrishnan R Yama, Niyama, Asana etc are the best practices recommended at the lower frame of reference. Pursuit of the knowledge of the self is a far higher level of reference. Both are true though the former is more relevant. That is where Mr.Barnes errs when he says "As i am nearing 65 myself, all this is very much what is happening for me. I used to think, when I still had a strong young body that as long as I did my yoga I wouldn't have to worry, haha! " Can he confirm that wool gathering and speculation of a logical idea do effectively substitute orderly life and mental health? Definitely adherence to a proper social code of conduct (Yama), clean habits (Niyama), exercises (Asana, Pranayama), improvement of mindset through mediation and concentration are far better common sense pointers to a healthy and happy old age than empty speculation with no purpose!
PS I am over 65 and I attribute what I consider to be my good health (Physical and mental) to the practice of Yoga:)