Continued from above…

You cannot demand a relationship with the deity. The relations with the particular deity in that particular divine place is already set up. All you can do is to fit in. Others must also fit in, in the way that is compatible with the ideas of the deity.

There is no disunity or disharmony with a deity in the deity’s realms in the spiritual worlds. There is no opportunity to dissent or resent or whatever, because one will just not be there so there will arise no occasion of disharmony.

In this world there is disharmony and dissent against Brahma the deity in whose mental energy we exist in. We do not have to agree with him and still we may go on existing at least so long as his mental energy holds up, but in the divine world this sort of thing does not occur.

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Thus, as you wrote, the core selves do have an innate spiritual sexuality which will be a part of their eventual spiritual existence when liberation is achieved. However the application of that is what we have to look at. In one spiritual world Yashoda is not the mother of Krishna. She might be in another role and that is it. But in the material world in Vrindvana she served as the mother of Krishna. We hear that Balarama, the elder brother of Krishna in their life on earth, was really a divine serpent bed of Krishna in a divine world. We also hear that in the spiritual Vrindavana this same Balarama is a cowherd boy who has a form that seems to be the elder of Krishna.

So the swarupa or spiritual form of the individual has to do with the particular spiritual province in which the individual appears.

In their life on earth, Rukmini was the principal spouse of Krishna but in the spiritual Vrindavana she may not be allowed to pick flowers which are to be offered to Krishna. She may be told by the gopis, “Please do not walk here picking flowers. What do you think? Why are you so arrogant? Run along. Sweep the path before us.”

In one higher astral world, a certain yogi guru is honored like a king, like a god, but in the divine world, he might be like a spiritual insect, a total nobody. We do not know our significance or insignificance to the deity.

When I am with Lord Shiva, I am just a boy of about 7 years of age. I have no sexual interest in anything. I do not see any females except sometimes we see the Goddess Durga and then she is like a stern detached mother, because she is not very fond of her yogi sons because they are stupid when it comes to understanding the needs of women.

So it depends on which deity and where and how one will fit in according to the ideas of the deity.

As a yogi boy with Lord Shiva everything is very nice but when the Goddess shows up everyone turns quiet because we cannot predict what she will say or do and who she will send away for whatever reason that comes to her mind.

When we are with the Brahma deity, we do not have to fear anybody. There is no woman there like the goddess Durga and so there we are free to be ourselves as boy-sons of Brahma.

It hinges on the particular deity and how one fits into to the existence in that realm.

Marcia Beloved 5 years ago

You have discussed the possibility of so many different roles and destinations!  It almost sounds like a person could already have been situated in a spiritual existence, but is now in the material world.  Does this apply only to entities who were always divine, but who are also assigned to come down into material existence from time to time?

One example you gave is Mother Yashoda:

In one spiritual world Yashoda is not the mother of Krishna. She might be in another role and that is it. But in the material world in Vrindvana she served as the mother of Krishna.

I wonder, is it possible that I already was spiritually situated, but am now, for some specific reason, stuck in material existence?

I always assumed that I am just a single core self, with a single subtle body, that I originated in the brahman effulgence, was never in the spiritual world but was flung into the material cosmos from the brahman effulgence and attracted a kundalini psyche tag, and that if I can purify the subtle body totally, then I can be elevated to a spiritual dimension, will be a spiritual entity and have a specified role there, which will be completely and eternally harmonious. 

My tendency is to desperately oversimplify spiritual concepts, because I actually am afraid to acknowledge the possible enormity of subtle and spiritual existence. 

Maybe what I really am wondering about, is this:

      *     Am I simultaneously more than one person at a time? Do I have expansions? Am I performing multiple roles at once?

      *     Can a person be a spiritual entity in a spiritual dimension, and at the same time be a core self in material existence, with a kundalini that is domineering oneself?

Are these speculations of mine, just a crazy application of imagination by the buddhi organ?

MiBeloved 5 years ago

Marcia Beloved's Query:

Am I simultaneously more than one person at a time? Do I have expansions? Am I performing multiple roles at once?

Can a person be a spiritual entity in a spiritual dimension, and at the same time be a core self in material existence, with a kundalini that is domineering oneself?

Are these speculations of mine, just a crazy application of imagination by the buddhi organ?

MiBeloved's Response:

You are not more than one person at a time but you are one person who is supported or propped by different realities from time to time. And you cannot be a person without props.

Depending on the props that is who you are. Unless one is an absolute being or a Personality of Godhead, one is reliant on existential props. In the Krishna Cosmic Body book, we hear about a yogi, Markandeya who got propped by infant Krishna, the divine boy, but then the boy deity did not want to support the yogi like that forever and re-transferred the yogi into the existential jurisdiction of Brahma, the local creator-god. So that means that Markandeya’s existence is always qualified by props.

From your perspective it may be that you are becoming different persons all the time but actually you are the same core-self which exhibits this or that qualities according to the props or supports.

The core-self is like a translucent clear crystal and it assumes the colors (qualities) of whatever shines on it. Those are its supports. The crystal feels pink when a pink light is near it and it feels blue when an aquamarine light is near it.

chris_hall1951 5 years ago

Simply esoteric conceptions and ideas, but I thank you very much Michael for clearing up whatever the issues were, with your super lucid explanations.

What more can you do.   You can bring the horse or horses to the water source for them to drink, but that is the beginning and end of that.  From the point on the horse is on it's on. 

It actions will then be determined by how much does it really need the water, or let's put it this way, how freaking thirsty is the animal?

Enuff said!