Various Subtle Bodies?
Meditationtime Forum Post
Date: Posted 6 years before Dec 14, 2018
MiBeloved 6 years ago
Manish wrote:
Dear Michael you make several conceptual mistakes.
MiBeloved's Response:
Conceptual yes, actual from direct experience in meditation, no
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Manish wrote:
Pranamaya Kosha is in the linga sharira and not in the sukshma sharira.
MiBeloved's Response:
This is correct that pranamaya kosha is in the linga sharira but it is also in the sukshma sharira, so Alfred is also correct. So long as there is a physical living body then pranamaya kosha is present in both bodies simultaneously.
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Manish wrote:
Therefore prana is the link between the physical body (Sthula Sharira) and the sukshma sharira.
MiBeloved's Response:
Prana as a subtle material not the link but prana as a gross material in the form of air is the link. Prana has a subtle aspect and a gross aspect. It is only the link in its subtle aspect. Therefore this argument does not hold. You have read one too many books and have not entered to research this factually in meditation and therefore your views are bookish only.
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Manish wrote:
The three bodies the sthula Sharira (Physical) the, Linga Sharira (Etheric) and the Lower Sukshma Sharira (astral) die, which we generally call as death.
Therefore neither astral body nor prana stay in the form after death. (Physical death).
Only the higher sukshma sharira and the karana sharira stay on.
MiBeloved's Response:
This again is incorrect and it is because of reading books and hearing information which is dogmatic and not checking this out for yourself in fact.
For the average human being, the bodies you mentioned except for the sthula physical system remains after death. They do not disappear. In fact for the ordinary person what you call the higher astral body and the causal body does not exist for that person because their existence does not register on the higher astral or causal levels.
Their etheric and lower astral bodies do register in fact but with one exception which is that what you call etheric is just a lower astral level of existence. There is no separate lower astral body as you depict. It is simply the same astral form in an energized or de-energized configuration.
Because of high energizations yogis, and extremely pious people and people who are divine beings outright experience astral forms which occur on the higher astral regions and beyond.
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Manish wrote:
Michael what I understand that we got 7 bodies
Physical, Etheric, Astral, Mental, Spiritual, Cosmic & Nirvanic Body. They are connected to Base, Svadisthana, Manipura, Anahata, Visuddha, Ajna and Sahasrara Chakra so that these bodies can take and give information/audio/video to our 7 bodies.
You told that subtle body lives for many years until the Sun ends, so Subtle Body=6 Bodies, without our Physical body, so when a person dies the 6 bodies transfer to new physical body on birth.
Now the Karma, in my opinion is attached with Etheric and Astral Body. So if all six bodies transfer to new born body, then Karma will be transfer to new body.
MiBeloved's Response:
Manish,
I can only sign on to this if we are talking about phases of the subtle body which are given different names as if they are different bodies while in fact they are only different levels of the same body.
In physical medicine, we also know about the lymph system and the blood system and the breathing system but we do not say that each of these are different bodies. They are merely phases of one body and I would suggest that in terms of the subtle body you begin to give this some consideration.
Regarding those 7 bodies however; that is not clear to me. Here is the situation as I experienced it in this very body in meditations. There are three bodies and two body-less state.
These three bodies are:
Physical
Subtle (also known as astral)
Spiritual
The two body-less states are:
Causal
Spiritual
The physical body is the one we are familiar with.
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The subtle body is called astral body, dream body, etheric body, mental body, pranic body and so on all depending on what level it is on. That body is like an elevator system. When the elevator stops on the ground floor we say that it is the ground floor elevator, when it is on the 6th floor we say that it is the sixth floor elevator. Actually it is the same elevator but it just has this ability to exist on various levels, and on each level it adapt the nature of that level of existence and thus seems to be a different body.
When the man is sober he is a sober man, when he drinks liquor, he is a drunk man.
Evidence for the subtle body and its levels is present right now in my practice, where at 61 years of age, I am hurrying up to change my subtle body into a siddha body which can live on the level of siddha loka. This is the same subtle body that I use even in trashy dreams on the lower astral planes on occasion; like when I used to drink liquor and take intoxicants.
But now by the grace of Srila Yogesh, because he is pulling me and disciplines me there is some chance that I might convert this body into a high grade astral body which can get pass the Swarga loka heavenly places.
Yoga is for the very purpose of transmuting and energizing the subtle body so that it can transit to the higher levels. But it is not another body. It is the same dream body which we normally use at night in dreams.
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The next form is the spiritual body. That body has nothing to do with anything on below the causal level. It is not manifested on this side of existence and it is not a phase or level of the subtle body.
Of the two bodiless states, the causal one is not a spiritual state but it is beyond the subtle body. It is the level of undifferentiated subtle energy from which the whole material world has come. Just as a miner can take iron ore in the form of a dust and then by using fire create a tool, so from the causal level, this subtle material existence has come. On the causal level there is no set form, there is no distinction or differentiation. It is like the iron ore, where it seems to have no value as an implement and yet, that dust is the material cause of the tools.
When a yogi enters the causal plane, all idea of a body is over. The yogi in there cannot tell where he begins or ends. He cannot do anything not even think. He can just exist and that is it.
As dust the iron ore cannot be used as a plough and still it is that very dust which the blacksmith uses to create the plough. So the deities, the God and his assistance have a way of converting the causal energy into subtle energy and then we assume identity in that energy.
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The spiritual bodiless state is easily experienced if a yogi can get kundalini to rise with force into the crown chakra. But it is actually a place which is beyond the causal level. When one is there one is usually in the sat feature of a spirit which means one exist and there is nothing but that with no idea of where one begins and where one ends.
Beyond this place you will find the place where the divine beings are living in spiritual environments with spiritual forms. This is the fabled Akshar dhama, Krishna Loka, Shiva Loka, Vaikuntha.
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Manish wrote:
And if Karma is transferred, to new body with etheric body some DNA codes will also be transferred. These DNA codes contain the skills and some diseases. These diseases and skills can be invoked any time.
It also means all diseases are mostly mental and related to thought pattern.
I am correcting my own previous comments after understanding your point in which I said that skills are transferred to new body but not the diseases.
Please correct me if I am wrong somewhere, because now I agree with you.
MiBeloved's Response:
This above is correct but I would like for you to realize that there is such a thing as subtle DNA, and the Sanskrit term for it is samskara which means a subtle imprint which the soul carries into the hereafter and may also bring back into a new body unless something happens to get rid of it.
DNA is not only physical, it has a subtle counterpart and this is why material nature (prakriti) is able to create the physical DNA.
We agree overall even though each of us look from a different angle.
unlimitedsun 6 years ago
Manish wrote:
I am correcting my own previous comments after understanding your point in which I said that skills are transferred to new body but not the diseases.
Please correct me if I am wrong somewhere, because now I agree with you
unlimitedsun's comment:
Jay Gurudeva!
So patient!
So magnanimous!
So impartial!
So expert!
So successful!
Namaste!
Alfredo 6 years ago
Great, great, and great!
Thank you so much.
