Stupid Samadhi?

Meditationtime Forum Post

Date: Posted 3 years before Jan 25, 2017

MiBeloved 3 years ago

Email correspondence:

When I regularly meditate and reach a stage of reduced thoughts, and then I come back to work, it becomes difficult for me to concentrate on any subject, and I lose my memory even about previous work I have done, and I need to make some vigorous efforts to get back it. Why and how this happens?

MiBeloved's Response:

This happens because you are meditating even though you did not go through the course of pratyahar sensual energy withdrawal, 5th step of yoga practice. In that stage the student deliberately pulls back the sensual energy which courses out of the subtle body through the senses into the external world.

The practice of pratyahar, if completely successfully, gives the student the insight into how the energy is generated and how it is sent out of the psyche into the external world to hunt for procurements which can be enjoyed. Keen observation of how this occurs, gives the student some insight into the psychic components and he (she) realizes that there are psychic components and that the core-self links to these and synchronized with these or are linked to these and is forcibly synchronized with these to create a composite self or person.

To understand what happens when one realizes the self in this way, study the teachings of Sri Ramana Maharshi and also those of Sri Visarga Datta. These individuals explained that the bare self has nothing to do with the psychic adjuncts like kundalini, memory and intellect. In this usage kundalini is the sensual energies of the subtle and physical body (psychological stuffs essentially).

What is the self?

If the person, the social person, is a composite reality, then in that configuration what is the self (atma)?

You sit to meditate which according to Patanjali is samyama or the three higher states of yoga in one sequential development, but have you mastered pratyahar sensual energy withdrawal beforehand? If you did not then we may question as to the validity of Patanjali. If the 5th stage of yoga is unnecessary, then why did Patanjali not declare that? Did he overlook that?

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Okay, I was really harsh in what I said above. Here is the soft part:

If you are successful to reach a samadhi state, then you will have separated from your social memory from this life. Therefore when you come out of the samadhi you will need to again reconnect with that social memory. In some persons this reconnection occurs instantly. In your case it is not happening in that way and so for a time you are spaced-out. Then over time you again feel like your normal social self with the skills you developed as this person in this life.

Let us consider what might happen in a dream. I was dreaming that I met a beautiful woman but when I came back to being my physical self in this world, I could not recall ever meeting such a woman in the physical world.

When I met this beautiful woman in the dream, I forgot my life here on earth, where I am married and have a large family with several children. There is no way that on earth, I could have a love affair with a beautiful woman other than my wife because it would ruin my prestige and destroy my sense of honor. And yet in the dream I was going into a bedroom and making love to the beautiful woman. When I was there in that dream I did not know myself as I know myself in this physical existence. I had no wife there, no children, nothing. It was just me a person who was fully absorbed by the beautiful astral person.

When I first came back to being myself as my physical body, I did not remember my wife here or my children. It took about three minutes before I got my bearings and knew who I was. Then inside of my mind, I was shocked to compare the loving feelings I had for the astral woman because those feelings were more intense than the feeling I have in this world for my spouse here.

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Question is:

Where was my composite earth self when I was with the astral woman. I know it was not destroyed, otherwise I could not resume it after three minutes when it again came into focus and I acted as I normally do in this world.

What was the process through which I again became that composite person with the skills and status which I earned?

In the astral dream where did I get the identity to be the lover of the beautiful woman? Over there in the astral dimension, the woman acted as if she knew me all along even though she had just met me. How did I become the composite personality who was the lover of that astral being?

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Samadhi!!!!!

It has become a legendary world. Every half-baked yogi, wants to achieve it.

What is it?

If there such a thing as stupid samadhi (jada samadhi), where a person enters into a trance state and comes back into ordinary consciousness without insight.

If I enter samadhi and become disconnected from my composite person parts, then if I was not paying attention or could not pay attention, then when I return to physical focus, I would be out of it for a time, until nature (or whatever psychic agency) reconnects me to my earth memory and skills.

But at least this stupid samadhi (tamo guna samadhi) can help us to realize that the atma (core-self) is different to the social additives which make for the present earthly identity. The person that I am known as presently is a composite. The atma, the bare core-self, the very last most inner layer of the onion, is a reality unto itself, according to the Gita. But others say there is no core there. Regardless we know that there must be a core in this case, because two distinct person composites operated, one in the dream and the other when the dream was over and I was back as my physical person.

Can you develop this insight?

Sure! You have to enter into that meditative state more often and you have to do so from an observational perspective. Try samprajnata samadhi and leave the higher asamprajnata samadhi for the super yogis. You need to see what nature does when it strips you of the earthly memory and ability, so that you can take the course in hand when you get back to earth to reinstate these psychic adjuncts.

Good luck!!

Alfredo 3 years ago

A new development in my meditation recently is this type or a similar type of samadhi.

It occurs once and sometimes twice during a 1-hour meditation, more often than not after the second half. It goes like this:

1. Thoughts of course decrease and the notion of time shifts or it is lost, meaning that at the end of it, I have been startled to see 15-20 minutes elapsing when I expected a 5-minute or so break. It is not sleep as I am somehow conscious through it.

2. There could simply be a vacuum.

3. There could be also an opening of visions in the whole front of the head, the whole forehead. This is no bay-window view, which has often been described as 3rd-eye vision, but the vision extends to cover the whole front, usually landscapes or prints and geometric forms. It is as if the whole being had penetrated the vision itself.

I searched Srila Yogeshwarananda's "The Science of Soul" carefully since he described all types of samadhis and indeed when this vacuum is found this is Tamas-predominating samadhi (tamo guna samadhi). This is often referred to as Jada Samadhi or perhaps as you called it "stupid or fool samadhi, which can never conduce to liberation (Moksha) because of its Tamasic support. The mind here rests in Shunya Bhava (voidness). It is like heavy sleep or sushupti. When one returns from it, there is no remembrance of anything.

Srila Yogeshwarananda wrote that he stayed years in his practice in this samadhi, mostly. Some people, mistakenly and exercising wishful thinking, take this samadhi to be nirbija or nirbikalpa, very far from the truth.

However, when the samadhi I am experiencing enters into the vision part, which I remember and experience clearly, it shifts into a Rajas-predominating Samadhi, and thus into what is defined as Savikalpa Samadhi. This occurred to me while doing Samyama on Muladhara Chakra, for example, there is an identification with an object but with individual consciousness. Visions occur, colors, patterns, as those that occurred to me which I mentioned in one of my recent practice reports. In this case while there is identification with the object - muladhara chakra - for example, I still retain my self-consciousness, meaning there is no knowledge of the function of the object.

When the knowledge of the function of the object is penetrated, which I have not arrived at yet but still working on it, the Triputi or triad of meditator, meditation, and object meditated is still there, but this knowledge is prevalent and now gives way to Savitarka Samadhi.

The pinnacle of this Raja-Samadhi is realization of the subtle elements of the chakra in Brahmarandra, which is named Savichara Samadhi.

chris_hall1951 3 years ago

Om Jai Yogipadaji Yogi Madhvacharya Namaha!

Thank's most Revered Sir, for your elaborations on an aspect of the subject of The Ultimate Knowledge.

All Hail an Infinite Glories and Obeisances,

To An Axis Supreme!

Jai Shri-Shri Krishna-Balarama!

chris_hall1951 3 years ago

Namaste to you Alfredo yogiji, you comment's are coming along very nicely, your writing style in this area is of course your own, but they are beginning to remind me more and more of how Michael would elaborate on these topics.

I offer my obeisances to your dedicated practice, along with that of Mata devaPriya Yogini and also to other member's, who are trying their best to follow in the footsteps of those who are investing more quality time in their practice.

Alfredo 3 years ago

Thank you Chris!

manishsony 3 years ago

Thank you very much for sharing this information.. I am really happy to see, get and read information of this level on this site. Although many times I do not understand completely the procedures, steps and knowledge delivered because I am not a Yogi and not involved in hard & regular practices.

Dean 3 years ago

Michael wrote:

When I first came back to being myself as my physical body, I did not remember my wife here or my children. It took about three minutes before I got my bearings and knew who I was. Then inside of my mind, I was shocked to compare the loving feelings I had for the astral woman because those feelings were more intense then the feeling I have in this world for my spouse here.

Dean's Question:

If I am understanding this correctly....it seems that the personal /social identity exist in whatever dimension your consciousness's attention is focused in whether astrally or physically? Hope that makes sense, because how else would you have no memory of those other identities?? While you are so absorbed in that current event whether sexual or domestic in nature, you have no recollection of the other memories associated with the other identities. WHY is that??

Sounds to me that Nature has us all playing the role of secret agent James Bond 007, and only through developing an intense and sincere Yoga practice can you determine that you are only an actor in several plays that Nature has forced you to participate in... so act accordingly!

manishsony 3 years ago

This is normal scenario. The more deeper the meditation is, the more our soul vibrates in higher dimension only some links remain to physical body. It takes some time to normalize and connect to earth. The particles or our body starts to change if we do deep meditation practice regularly.

Sometimes for hours I get into different world. Yesterday night I was laying down like dead man no memories at all. In the morning I wake up and only knew I was laying down like dead. Many times after deep meditation session or sleep in meditative state requires some time 10-15 minutes to normalize to get all memories and working condition of body.

The energies of soul or vibrations requires to be in tune with 3D/Physical world to get normalize. The more we understand the tuning of vibration rate or change of vibration rates we can make it more effectively.

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