Soul vs psyche?
Meditationtime Forum Post
Date: Posted 6 years before Nov 27, 2018
Jettins 6 years ago
Well from what Destiny of Souls book from Michael Newton was saying a baby functions without its soul till it get maybe a year old or whenever a kid grow out of the imaginary friend phase...if that’s the case which i know you read..then the body can function without soul....but there’s no way of proofing this....well except that one of his progressed clients said it while in soul form....but is this proof enough one can't say unless we exp it for ourselves.....or have a past/after life regression done to find out...but then it will only be proof to that individual.
Hmm the soul mobility part is probably what i was talking about...to be sure i'll post the page number later or mail it to you so you can see exactly what i was talking about.
Ok chapter 9 case 67 talks about what i'm talking about pg 391-394...but start on page 393 at the bottom with dr.n then go to page 393 to finish off
I wasn't at home but they had a copy here at the bookstore. Very interesting book indeed. Excerpt from page 393 and 394 of Destiny of Souls by Michael Newton:
Dr. N. Then at birth, I suppose the hard work of the merger is over?
S. To be honest, the merger isn't complete yet for me. I talk to my body as a second entity up to the age of six.
Dr. N. I have noticed a lot of young children talk to themselves as if they were with an imaginary playmate. Is that their souls?
S. That's right.
Interesting but I think it can be misunderstood. When he states that the merger isn't complete he doesn't mean to say that the body does not have a soul when he talks to himself, it only means that his soul is not fixated into the body completely. In other words it gets displaced.
I think it is similar to when we have out-of-body experiences. Our focus awareness is on the spirit side of things because of our perspective. But this doesn't mean that our souls is "leaving the body" only the awareness portion of it needs to if you think about it, the part that can extend outward. Some would refer to it as the etheric, but I don't like to use these terms.
Using this reasoning I could also say the same thing. My soul is not fixated complete in my body which is the reason why I am able to have conscious out-of-body experiences nearly at will. But this statement wouldn't be accurate if I were to say it. It’s only and enhanced awareness that gets displaced, not my "soul".
The way I can make sense of this conversation is as follows: As a young boy up to the age of six, our soul has a greater influence over the body because we haven't been fully programmed into material existence. In other words, our individual psyche is not developed to the point it can conflict with the deeper inner influences of our soul and our souls plan. Therefore, our soul is able to have more of a say into how we experience reality before the age of 6. This in turn makes it so our soul (master plan from before birth), and our individuals awareness or psyche can become interchangeable giving the appearance of existing in 2 places. Instead of fully merged as one which it was would happen after the age of six.
This makes sense to me because this would explain why many of my guides actually come out of my astral body, my astral form. As they are part of me, when my psyche was less developed they had more to say regarding my existence. Maybe even determined which type of life I was to have. Now that my psyche is developed I am to decide what happens to me. Yet the guides or those that serve for the benefit of my souls plan from before birth can still communicate things to me. These guides at times (but not always), would be my built in personalities from previous existences. I am only trying to make sense of my observations.
MiBeloved 6 years ago
The first thing I would need is his definition of soul. First that must be clear, then what he writes can be followed.
Using the same word with a different meaning cannot lead to a fruitful definition unless we know exactly what is being discussed.
For instance, if I say bring me two apples and in your vocab, applies are goats, then you can only follow me if you abandon your vocab and use mine.
He also needs to clear up how that soul functions after death of the body.
In other words the definition has to be consistent through all phases of the body.
In the definition I use for soul, there can be no functioning of the body if the soul is not present, but that does not mean that the body's functions are controlled only by the soul. Other psychic accessories carry out functions irrespective of the necessary presence of the soul.
In a pregnancy, the soul which is the mother may not control what is taking place in the embryo but if we remove that soul (mother), then the embryo's life will end on the physical plane.
Jettins 6 years ago
That's a good point, I had a feeling you where going to wonder exactly that. I have read the book he's referring to. I see how you view the soul, makes sense to me.
MiBeloved 6 years ago
Jettins,
One of the things to look out for is misunderstanding and a justifiable one too, of the denied soul and the soul. I tried to clear this up in the sex you! book.
What I mean is this?
Where is the soul when my body is one years old? How does it function at that stage?
Where is it when my body is 21 years old, how does it function then?
It is very important to understand that there are adjuncts otherwise we will get into a fix, because if there is a soul and that is it, and that thing has all control, then the whole proposal has to be scrapped because then we will find nothing consistent over the life of the body, only variation. Then we will have to take the stance of Lord Buddha of anatma, which means an (no) atma (soul).
We have to first scale down our definition of this glorious soul. We have to cut the guy down to his actual size and then we can get somewhere. If the guy soul is simply a little shit in the psyche, then that is what he is, and that is easy to work with, but if we say he is only there when he is an adult, then we are going to have some trouble explaining ourselves.
If we begin with him as a little shit who is assisted by psychic accessories, then we can be consistent all the way through.
An infant in a crib is helpless but if we see that his mother is helping him then it makes sense to say that he is this and he is that, based on the assistance he receives.
So if I am a prince and then my father the king passes off when I am only 5 years of age, of course I am not much of a ruler. But if you challenge me and I order that your head be sliced off, then guess what?
So of course I am just a little prince, but the army follows my orders, so you are toast.
Because the soul has no say in the initial formation of the body, people have a problem with that and it is only because they fail to understand the power and influence of the psychic accessories of the soul.
If the President of the United States tells you to leave your government because otherwise your country will be blown to the smithereens, then it might be wise to take what he says seriously because even though the President is one man only, still there is a whole accessory system which carries out his sane and insane plans.
So the soul is nothing in the infancy of the body but it has accessories which act so that it does in time become prominent in the acts of the body.
Jettins 6 years ago
Interesting, I will read it again in a bit. I am need to get going now.
Don't take this the wrong way by any means.
Is there a way to test or experiment with these concepts in the Astral Side and away from Astral Metaphors, (experiences of the inner senses) based on the input from psyche and also away from philosophy that creates our expectation? Not trying to be a skeptic, I wouldn't be here if I was.
MiBeloved 6 years ago
The only way to test it is to realize the subtle body when it is interspaced in the gross body and to realize the psychic sensual operations which take place in the subtle body when it is interspaced.
This is inSelf yoga. It means that instead of focusing on astral projection and researching the astral world through the use of a subtle body, one foregoes that as being the priority and instead does in the psyche research and exploration in the subtle body itself.
The astral world is an environment and so is the inner world of the psyche. So this practice is abandoning the astral world as the priority research and flipping to the inner world of the psyche.
Astral experiences will still continue but these will no longer be the priority.
But this is person evidence not evidence that can be shared to others who have not also done inself research.
Let us turn the attention on you Jettins. So you are always exploring the astral domains which you are now permitted to enter. These are not all the astral psychic territories. In fact the ones you go to are the ones which are adjacent to the earth planet.
But still that is an achievement. Where is the solid evidence to prove that? You cannot produce solid evidence. People just have to take your word for it, except for those who had similar experiences. Such persons can question you for more details and then they can know if you went there in fact.
Two men were on a street in New York arguing over whether another man had actually gone to Moscow. One man said, “He has no evidence, therefore it is likely that he never went there and besides how do we know if there is such a place as Moscow.”
The other man replied, “You are a skeptic fool. Have you never seen a map of the Russia? Moscow is a real place. That man who had the experience is a religious man who would never tell an untruth.”
But a man, who was passing by, went to them and said this:
“I was born in Moscow.”
He then spoke fluent Russian which they did not understand. Then he said to them,
“Let us go to that person, I will question him about some ordinary landmarks which are not mentioned in tour books. If he was here I can verify it for you.”
Therefore spiritual evidence, psychic evidence, is forthcoming with experienced traveler, astral travelers like yourself, and for this inSelf yoga, the evidence comes from those who mastered it.
It cannot be proven scientifically except in an indirect way which is not solid evidence.
But let us look at the flip side of this. If you need proof, then that tells us that the self is really in a bad position. The self is messed up because it cannot even understand its inners.
Imagine that your heart beats physically so many times per minute and if I meet you when you have no scientific instruments and I am a deaf man with impaired feelings, you will not be able to convince me that it does.
Imagine another thing:
You have thousands of nerves in your body. But if I ask you to show me all of them you cannot do it. It is right there. It is part of the physical reality and still even though it is yours you are still helpless to demonstrate all of them to me.
Now if this does not answer your inquiry, please submit it again but rephrase the questions.
On other thing:
The first stage of research as to the core-self and how it is fused with the adjuncts, is to note how the adjuncts are shut down during the period of drowsiness just before sleep and also how the adjuncts are enabled during the period of partial consciousness just before full physical awareness.
Then the second stage which will give you a hard time because you are not that familiar with it, is to observe the default position of the core-self, then to note its calculations and analysis operation as to where these occur either in the core-self itself or in one of its adjunct locations. So this second stage has many parts to it and if you begin practicing, I would be willing to provide more direction as you go along.
I must advise you that you cannot make progress in inSelf yoga if you have a plan to present it in an objective way. This is one area where you might have some difficulty making an inroad into the process. It is mostly subjective experience in the subjective part of the psyche and it won’t yield itself to objective analysis from this level of existence.
Jettins 6 years ago
MiBeloved wrote:
Where is the solid evidence to prove that? You cannot produce solid evidence. People just have to take your word for it, except for those who had similar experiences.
Jettins' reply:
The difference is that we are not fools in New York that don’t know the different between north and south. We are the same as experienced pilots that have flown between the different cities. We know there are places we haven’t visited. In other words, I was asking for the route to such a city, because I want to experience it also and not because I am skeptical about it. Let’s try not to lose perspective of this as this is pretty self-evident.. I did not mean to suggest that subjectivity cannot have objective elements, this is not science of course. My question was meant to inquire on the practical approach towards such a realization if possible. One thing is to look out for misunderstandings as you said, indeed.
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MiBeloved wrote:
Research and exploration in the subtle body itself
Jettins' reply:
Yeah. I knew you were going to say exactly that. I think I need to read that book first to then be able to ask you the proper questions. I was asking about how to explore the nerves I suppose. But hold that thought, I shall finish meditation pictorial first.
Have a great day!
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The skeptical sounding part was that as an experienced pilot I don't want to misconstrue the clouds for the islands, in other words I don't want to confuse the real things vs the illusions of them naturally. I say this because there are difference between dream illusions and separate beings.
