Opinions on Bhakti Path
Meditationtime Forum Post
Date: Posted 3 years before May 14, 2016
MiBeloved 3 years ago
From LinkedIn Response:
Pamarthi wrote:
I do have questions always, whether this is only the correct path? Am I deserved to do that? What are those requirements? When I am ready for the Bhakti path?
MiBeloved's Response:
For the bhakti path, one must first have a deity and then one must get the requirements from that deity either through scriptures where that deity gave the requirements or through an agent of the deity.
Usually in India, the agent of the deity is regarded as a leader of a particular sect, an Acharya, a Teaching Authority.
This means that unless I know the deity, I cannot answer the question.
Now assuming that the deity is Krishna, then I can tell you this much. The Bhagavad Gita does not discuss in detail bhakti or bhakti yoga to Krishna. That discussion is in the Uddhava Gita and to some extent there is indication of what bhakti is in the discourses of Krishna’s relationships with the residents of Vrindavan which is in the Srimad Bhagavatam.
Some Acharyas says that the Gita is all about bhakti but the text itself states that it concerns karma yoga and jnana yoga. However in the discourse with Uddhava, Krishna states that he would explain three yogas namely karma yoga, jnana yoga and bhakti yoga. Therefore the statement about the Bhagavad Gita being bhakti yoga is spurious.
My opinion is that any other scriptures, besides these three, which are the Bhagavad Gita, the Mahabharata and the Srimad Bhagavatam, are spurious books even if they were written by Acharyas of the sampradayas. Spurious means that one has to check these statements to be sure they are in compliance with those other books mentioned above. Bhagavad Gita is of course part of the Mahabharata even though usually we consider it to be a book in its own right.
==========================
Pamarthi wrote:
Is bhakti the correct path for you?
MiBeloved's Response:
Well I need to know what you mean by bhakti. If you mean the kind of affectionate dealings between Krishna and the gopis or Krishna and gopas, then you have to answer the question as to if you have that relationship with Krishna. If the answer is yes, then the inquiry is over. You have got your answer.
If the answer is no or if the answer is filled with uncertainty where you are not sure either way, then you need to back up, to spend some time studying the life of Krishna both from the Srimad Bhagavatam and from the Mahabharata, so that you can get some more insight into who this guy Krishna really is.
The material world is imperfect, we accept that. But for now it is all we have. As the reference we find that if we love someone they invariably hurt us in one way or the other. We experience this. Therefore will God please us all the way? Or will God cause us heartache?
In some sampradayas, because of an implied criticism about the text made by Narada to Vyasa (its author), they do not read the Mahabharata. However, I always advise that one should read this book to get a complete picture about this guy, Krishna, because on some occasions he was downright vicious to people. Actually in the Srimad Bhagavatam there were instances with certain deviant and corrupt kings where he acted in that way also.
So my point is that before you run off saying you love this guy, be sure to get all the information about him so that you are not disappointed. People say that he is full of mercy, but when Karna asked for a little reprieve during the battle when his chariot wheel was stuck, Krishna blasted him and told Arjuna to let him have it. There are other incidences like this. Of course we also hear that he was merciful to Kaliya but only after the creature’s wives got down on their knees and begged for Kaliya’s life.
So my point is that you need to take a good look at these incidences before you jump in and then find out something about the guy which disappoints you and tears your heart apart.
=================================
Now if on the other hand the deity is not Krishna, say the deity is Rama, the son of Dasharath. Then the first question I have to ask you are which scripture are you reading or hearing his life from. Is it Rama Charita Manas or is it Ramayana of Valmiki.
If it is Rama Charitia Manas, then I cannot help you because I have no confidence in that book.
If it is Valmiki, then I have to ask you to read that text again and then we may get into a discussion about it because there are some very strange things about this person according to that text.
For instance, he allowed his brother to follow him into the forest for a 14 year banishment even though his brother was married, knowing fully well that his brother’s wife would be left behind in the city of Ayodhya and would not have a husband for all those years. He killed Vali, the brother of Sugriva in a very dishonest way.
Is this the God you say you love?
Of course he did some very nice things also, but we have to look at the whole picture to be honest about it. We find in our lives, that sometimes after getting married, we are wondering about the decision when we find out that the spouse is not what we considered that he or she should be. Can I really give unconditional love to somebody like Krishna who incites the poor Arjuna to kill off relatives like his grandfather?
Would you really follow the instruction of a person who tells you to kill your relatives without mercy? Are you saying that you are happy about this person on Janamashtami? Or is it that you have to put those disagreeable requests out of your mind and then you can enjoy him?
Is it a fact that I could love somebody, anybody, Krishna even, so unconditionally that I would kill my grandfathers, uncle , cousins and others just to uphold moral principles which are stipulated to me in a half discourse on a battlefield? Can I really do this? Or is this just good fantasy, so long as that person does to require this of me?
==========================
Pamarthi wrote:
Acharya says that all the life you have been asking / praying GOD to give good education, good business, then good wife / husband, then pray for boy / girl, and then pray for your children, and their well being, and so on and on. By that time you become old, and then pray for your own health since you are getting old may be 60-70. Now, the Acharya say.. Pray for yourself to GOD and ask GOD, I want you, take me with you, do not ask anything, do not want anything, only say, you gave everything, I have enough, chant the Holy Names of GOD, and say take me with you.
MiBeloved's Response:
I do not know who this Acharya is but since you address this person as Acharya, I must in the tradition assume that this person is a lineage authority who is deserved of respect.
Obviously he is doing his job as the spiritual master and he is following a line of teachers who were trustworthy.
However it is not clear who this God is. Again I need to know who the deity is in particular. We are all saying God. Some of us mean Krishna. Some of us mean Jesus Christ. Some of us mean the Father of Jesus Christ. Some of us mean the master of Mohammed. Some of us mean ourselves. Some of us mean something which we will merge into at the time of death or during meditation. Some of us mean the Primal Creative Cause. Some of us mean………………….
I like this person, your Acharya though, because he is bringing to our attention two very important points which are:
1. I am dependent. I need help.
2. My instinct is to get help from a Supreme Person.
The other thing I hear him saying is that since from birth I was reaching for this help even though that Supreme Person is not physically present. Now that I have a sense of reason and some maturity, I could at least think this thing out and ask for something which makes all the sense in the world, which is that I should go to that Supreme Person when this body dies which so far as we see is a sure thing.
So yes these are very good ideas. It is a wonder that we are not thinking this out for ourselves and that somebody has to draw our attention to this. We are too hung up on so many social concerns which will bottom out anyway with the death of the body which is the primary means of maintaining those social interests.
But there is a snag in the whole premise of this Acharya, which is that I have never met this Supreme Person whom I instinctively address and I cannot be certain that he hears everything I request from him. I was disappointed in some of my requests even though some of them were fulfilled. How do I know that nature did not fulfill these without His divine agency? I found that some of these desires were fulfilled and then things turned sour anyway. So how am I to trust that?
How do I know for sure that this Supreme Person is there in the first place? And even assuming that he (or she) is there? Then how can I be certain that this person even hears what I say and even cares about what I do and do not do?
What is my actually value to that person?
On the battle of Kurukshetra, Krishna picked out Arjuna specifically as the main agent of his (Krishna’s) Universal Form. What about the others? What was their importance to him? In the end (Anu Gita) when Arjuna Asked Krishna to please show the universal form and the divine Narayana form again, Krishna refused and told Arjuna that he was a low misfit and a huge disappointment as a disciple. How can I be sure how this deity will treat me? I can hardly take harsh treatment from relatives. It hurts to the core. How will I deal with a Supreme Person who might reject me or discipline me?
==========================
Pamarthi wrote:
To be frank and honest with you, I felt it that way on the Day of Sri Krishna Janmashtami, 10th Aug, 2012.It was a wonderful day for me, all the day went on praying, listening, chanting, viewing TV programs on Sri Krishna, shown from various corners of Indian temples, its rituals, prayers etc., I felt great satisfaction, contentment, cannot explain why? I felt strongly that time, if I die on that night and after, I have no regrets. (My personal feelings only)
MiBeloved's Response:
This makes it clear that the deity is Krishna. Therefore my advice to you is to read the Mahabharata from cover to cover. Then read the Srimad Bhagavatam to get some insight into who this Krishna is and what kind of demands this person will place on you.
How you felt on Janamashtmi, Krishna’s Appearance Day, is great. You still will have to face up to the unpalatable tasks which this deity might place before you. Love does not pass the test in its pleasurable events but only in its disappointments and heartbreaks.
Krishna is also my deity but I have seen his spiritual form directly and so I know exactly why and how I am attracted to him and for what reason, so I am willing to put up with any crap He throws my way.
I will give you some understanding. My mother, who is now deceased, was a very attractive woman physically. She was so attractive that I remember when I was an infant, when she would walk down the street and people would come out of stores to see her, even women would stop what they were doing and leave their houses to go out and see her when she passed by their house.
As an infant I used to be amazed by this. It was puzzling me for many years. Later after moving into an adult body, I began to take a second look at her attractive phenomena. Once there was this guy who used to call my mother. He was in love with her but she did not care a hoot about him. Instead of telling the guy like it was, she merely indulged him. So he would call and would charge up hours of phone bills which used up all his salary. This was when long distance calls were expensive in the 1970’s.
It was then I began to reflect on how cruel this woman was. She was my mother for sure and she was very affectionate to me but to men she was a tiger. It all began with them considering her to be a beautiful fawn and it ended with them being shredded by her claws.
So yes, sometimes even with a person like this, because one loves the person and is helpless in that love, one will do anything for that person and will put up with anything.
But at least with Krishna you can read up about him and get some more insight so as to either strengthen your attraction or make a decision to go to some other deity.
==========================
And by the way, In the Uddhava Gita, Krishna clarifies that the bhakti works only if it is intense because when Krishna requires something unpalatable of the devotee, that devotee will only go through with it, if the love is that intense. Arjuna is an example of this and perhaps that is why the Acharyas hail the Gita as a text about bhakti to Krishna.
