Oneness As The Solution
Meditationtime Forum Post
Date: Posted 3 years before Sep 27, 2016
MiBeloved 3 years ago
I did a meditation session at about 10am at Bill Lovett’s place where he meets with Neil (Crenshaw) for meditation on Sundays. Tobe Terrell took us to this location and there were 7 persons present.
At first there was a discussion where Bill explained his realization in terms of forgiveness of the self by the self so that the self can be in Oneness. I am not sure that I am repeating this verbatim.
The conclusion I drew from this proposal is that when the self finds itself in a jam, it should resume the now-ness mood and thus free itself from being isolated from the whole existence. Once it is in the whole existence as a non-differentiated part of that, it will not be subjected to the actions and reactions which take place in the current environment, the material world.
Marcia Beloved objected to this proposal on the basis of her idea that her individuality will remain intact. She did not want to scrap her individuality in return for Oneness.
You can be the judge as to what is what in this discourse.
I made a comment about gurus who advocated Oneness and who were unable to manifest it in their communities, except as a caption and as an advertisement to get people to join their sect. I was in some ashrams and know for a fact that the Oneness in these groups is a billboard ad and nothing else, because inside of these groups there are power struggles and ruthless dealings for maintaining the status quo and charting the direction of the teachings. My concern is the practicality of any of the Oneness ideas. How will that be administered in a physical or psychic community?
I have a reserve attitude where I would like to see the proponent of Oneness live it out in social dealings in a spiritual community. I do not see that we can get rid of communities, because they also exist on the astral planes. Thus the practicality of the Oneness idea needs to be addressed before I will sign on to any of it.
neil 3 years ago
In support of Oneness I suggest that if all humans understood and realized it there would be no wars, murders, rape, and so on. The difference between one person and another lies in the mind. And the mind is an enigma. If you can clear the mind, what remains? The answer is Oneness. Here are a few quotes from some very savvy and respected sources:
"He who realizes all beings are of himself will have no fear or suffering and will understand that we are all one. We are all one with the same Light." (Isha Upanishad)
"When he perceives the unity existing in separate creatures and how they expand from unity he attains the infinite spirit."
(The Bhagavad Gita)
"The Tathagata (True Being) is the same unto all beings, differing in his attitude (mind) only in so far as all beings are different." (The Buddha)
"I am in my Father and you in me and I in you" (Jesus) John 14:20
"If the Absolute is Omnipresent, it must be present in all places at all times, in all person, in all atoms, in matter, in mind, and spirit." (Yogi Ramacharaka)
"When you know that you are in everything, in everybody, in all lives, the universe, then alone comes the state of fearlessness." (Swami Vivekananda)
"Inside the microcosm of the individual exists the macrocosm of the universe." (B.K.S. Iyengar)
Alfredo 3 years ago
I have a problem also believing the Oneness thing, and I am adding only this through my limited experience.
Although the sources quoted above, undoubtedly point to a higher truth, it seems that very, very few have been able to realize it fully.
Even when reading quotes from such high sources, I am still suspicious. There is a lot of repetition, even in scriptures.
What I have seen in this life is mostly a gimmick of oneness. From the behavior of high personalities, even of world-famed ones within the spiritual records of mankind, oneness goes soon out the window, especially when dealing with close families and friends. Of course, you hear, or read, Bhagwan, or the Guru, or the Master, sees everyone as the same, he/she does not see differences between people, but it is mostly bull because you soon witness Bhagwan or the Guru catering to his family, making them special, favoring them, and these within the high ones, the lower masters don't even bother. Not that there is something wrong with catering to your immediate family, no, but it is, at best, a very reduced oneness.
So yes, if oneness as explained above would be felt or realized, there would be no crime, rapes, murder, etc, but it isn't. I hope it comes.
Jesus seems to be one of those few who had it. Father Maximilian Kolbe must have had it, somehow, too.
The Supramental Species heralded by Sri Aurobindo falls in this category too.
neil 3 years ago
I am certainly not an expert but it seems to me that the big limiting factor to knowing that we are all One is the mind. The human loves to think in images, words, ideas, beliefs, and concepts and all of this hypothetical theoretical jargon leads nowhere. When I go into deep meditation, away from thought, I experience Oneness. Words cannot describe Oneness so if you haven't experienced it you won't know it. I'm sorry.
devaPriya Yogini 3 years ago
Speaking from certain experience, i believe what new agers experience in meditation as simply a quiet mind state
compels them to label the experience as "oneness", as if that's the be all end all of spiritual experience.
I think that's an unfortunate conclusion.
Momentarily escaping thoughts results in folks believing they've reached some kind of enlightenment.
I think a feeling of so called oneness is itself an illusion and is only the beginning of discovering what lies beyond.
I'd say keep meditating and maybe what is beyond what you think of as this rudimentary oneness feeling will reveal to you the greatness of your individual soul.
Alfredo 3 years ago
Neil:
Your realization with oneness during higher meditation is valid and profound. I believe this is the realization of the Spirit as substratum. In this realization the essence or support of everything is realized, that one substance Sat (that manifests as Satchidananda). This is Vidya. As Swami Shriyukteshwar pointed out in Kaivalya Darsanam: "Avidya is the perception of the non-existent, or the non-perception of the Existent".
However, this does not mean we are one and the same. For who comes out of the meditation? Neil, the individual. OK, yes, the feeling can spill over for a while or even for a long while...Let's see.
Using an allegory. All the Ford Focus cars coming out from an assembly plant in Detroit. The common manufacturer is Ford. Individuals driving this model may realize many common features, as we realize the similarities among human bodies, but some, like you, could realize Ford, which is, in this case, the Paramatma.
Now, using the example of the life of one of the greatest sages of modern times: Sri Aurobindo. He realized the oneness, the substratum of everything (one of several spiritual realizations he had), during his incarceration in Alipore Jail, Calcutta, and left us a beautiful description of it, but later he again became Sri Aurobindo, and...did he treat everyone as equal? No. The Mother, his spiritual alter ego, he treated as the special being she was, whom Sri Aurobindo himself called non other than Maheshwari. Similarly with his closest disciples.
So, my point is, yes, there is a spiritual substratum supporting everything, but that does make us one with it. That's why I reject the oneness Moksha of the Vedantin that, although it exists as a possibility, is not supported by the Gita.
