Krishna and Advaita Vedanta
Meditationtime Forum Post
Date: Posted 5 years before Jun 19, 2017
MiBeloved 5 years ago
Email Inquiry:
According to some Vaishnava Shiva is the "greatest devotee of Krsna or Visnu". If Shankaracarya is an incarnation of Shiva then why did he teach Advaita and not Bhakti? Please excuse my ignorance on the matter but this is my perception of the matter, and has led me to focus more on Advaita than on Krsna Consciousness. However I feel a strong pull towards Krsna Consciousness. My problem with it is with the fanaticism of so many of the devotees and blasphemy of other religions, which I do not like or agree with.
MiBeloved's Response:
Shankaracharya is not Shiva the Deity, but Shankara is empowered by Shiva. There is a difference.
Shankara established monism or advaita, the lack of duality between the minute and the cosmic. But he did so on the basis of statements in the Upanishads.
The advaita system is based on the Samkhya of Kapila Muni, the one who was the son of Devahuti. This also derives support from the Upanishad.
The chief book on the subject of monism is the Brahma Sutras because there, personality is not discussed at length and is minimized.
Now regarding Krishna and his attitude to the monists, I never found any evidence in the Bhagavad Gita or in the Uddhava Gita, or in the life of the Krishna in the Srimad Bhagavatam which supports the idea that Krishna is against monism. Arjuna asked about it point blank in terms of comparing the two paths and Krishna said that those who follow the path of monism will overall make slower progress. He cited a reason which you may look at. Please when you review these verses, check the Sanskrit carefully. If you find any verse which shows that Krishna was against monism, please show it to me.
Look at these verses:
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arjuna uvāca
evaṁ satatayuktā ye
bhaktāstvāṁ paryupāsate
ye cāpyakṣaramavyaktaṁ
teṣāṁ ke yogavittamāḥ (12.1)
arjuna — Arjuna; uvāca — said; evaṁ — thus; satatayuktā = satata—constantly + yuktā — disciplined in yoga; ye — who; bhaktāh — devoted; tvam —you; paryupāsate — they cherish; ye — who; cāpi = ca — and + api — also; akṣaram — imperishable; avyaktaṁ — invisible existence; teṣāṁ — of them; ke — which; yogavittamāḥ — those who have the highest knowledge of yoga
Arjuna said: Of those who are constantly disciplined in yoga, being also devoted to You, and those who cherish the imperishable invisible existence, which of these two have the highest knowledge of the yoga techniques? (12.1)
śrībhagavānuvāca
mayyāveśya mano ye māṁ
nityayuktā upāsate
śraddhayā parayopetās
te me yuktatamā matāḥ (12.2)
Śrībhagavān — the Blessed Lord;uvāca — said; mayyāveśya = mayi-on me + āveśya — focusing on: mano = manaḥ — mind; ye — who; māṁ — me; nityayuktā — those who are always disciplined in yoga; upāsate — they worship; śraddhayā — with faith; parayopetās = parayā — with the highest degree; + upetāḥ — endowed; te they; me — to me; yuktatamā — most disciplined; matāḥ — considered
The Blessed Lord said: Those whose minds are focused on Me, who are always disciplined in yoga, who are always involved in worship of Me, who are endowed with the highest degree of faith, they are considered to be the most disciplined. (12.2)
ye tvakṣaramanirdeśyam
avyaktaṁ paryupāsate
sarvatragamacintyaṁ ca
kūṭasthamacalaṁ dhruvam (12.3)
ye — who; tu — but; akṣaram — imperishable; anirdeśyam — undefinable; avyaktaṁ— invisible; paryupāsate — they cherish; sarvatragam — all-pervading; acintyam — inconceivable; ca — and; kūṭastham — unchanging; acalaṁ —- immovable; dhruvam — constant
But those who cherish the imperishable, undefinable, invisible, all-pervading, inconceivable, unchanging, immovable, constant reality, (12.3)
saṁniyamyendriyagrāmaṁ
sarvatra samabuddhayaḥ
te prāpnuvanti māmeva
sarvabhūtahite ratāḥ (12.4)
saṁniyamyendriyagrāmaṁ = saṁniyamya — controlling + indriyagrāmaṁ — all sensual energies; sarvatra — in all respects; samabuddhayaḥ — even-minded; te — them; prāpnuvanti — they attain; mām — me; eva — also; sarvabhūtahite = sarvabhūta — all creatures + hite — in the welfare; ratāḥ — rejoicing
...by controlling all sensual energies, being even-minded in all respects, rejoicing in the welfare of all creatures, they also attain Me. (12.4)
kleśo'dhikatarasteṣām
avyaktāsaktacetasām
avyaktā hi gatirduḥkhaṁ
dehavadbhiravāpyate (12.5)
kleśo — kleśaḥ — exertion; 'dhikataraḥ = adhikataraḥ — greater; tesam — of them; avyaktāsaktacetasām — avyakta — invisible existence + āsakta — attached + cetasām — of minds; avyaktā — invisible reality; hi — truly; gatiḥ — goal; duḥkhaṁ — difficult; dehavadbhiḥ — by the human beings; avāpyate — is attained
The mental exertion of those whose minds are attached to the invisible existence is greater. The goal of reaching that invisible reality is attained with difficulty by the human beings. (12.5)
ye tu sarvāṇi karmāṇi
mayi saṁnyasya matparāḥ
ananyenaiva yogena
māṁ dhyāyanta upāsate (12.6)
ye — who; tu — but; sarvāṇi — all; karmāṇi — actions; mayi — in me; saṁnyasya — deferring: matparāḥ — regarding me as the most important factor; ananyenaiva = ananyena — without another, undistracted + eva — indeed; yogena — with yoga discipline; māṁ — me; dhyayānta — meditating on; upāsate — they worship
But those who defer all actions to Me, regarding Me as the most important factor, who meditate on Me with undistracted yoga discipline, do worship Me. (12.6)
teṣāmahaṁ samuddhartā
mṛtyusaṁsārasāgarāt
bhavāmi nacirātpārtha
mayyāveśitacetasām (12.7)
teṣām — of those; aham — I; samuddhartā — delivered; mṛtyusaṁsārasāgarāt = mṛtyu — death + saṁsāra — reincarnations + sāgarāt — from the vast existence; bhavāmi — I am; nacirāt — soon; pārtha — son of Pṛthā; mayyāveśitacetasām = mayi — in me + āveśita — intently, invested in + cetasām — of thoughts
I am the deliverer of those devotees, rescuing them from the vast existence of death and reincarnation. O son of Pṛthā, I soon deliver those devotees whose thoughts are intently invested in Me. (12.7)
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The gist of this is that people who take up the personalist or dual path, dvaita, will get help from the deity and because of getting assistance, they will progress faster, than those who have no confidence in the deity and who think that the ultimate reality is imperishable, undefinable, invisible, all-pervading, inconceivable, unchanging, immovable, constant reality.
It is interesting because except for a few stalwart souls like Buddha and Ramana Maharishi most of the people who take up the advaita monism course end up taking help from their gurus who are in a way the deity for them. They do not go it alone. Buddha went it alone and even though he did he admitted meeting the Brahma deity time and again and also took instructions from that deity to begin his teaching in Northern India. So why did he take suggestions from this person?
But again I do not see that the resentment and antagonism from the Vaishnava sampradaya to the advaita vedantists originated from the Krishna of the Bhagavad Gita. I personally checked through the history of the sampradaya because I am initiated into it, and I could only find that it was traced to some things which happened in Bengal.
Once sometime after 1984, I was with Bhaktitirtha Swami who is now deceased. It was me him and a devotee who was using the name of Ekendra at the time. We went to see Krishna Balarama Swami, a native from Vrindavana, India. This swami had just come from India. He had this idea that he would take over the New Vrindavana temple complex in West Virginia because Kirtanananda the authority of the farm was arrested and things were in shambles.
The board at New Vrindavan was cold shouldered to Krishna Balarama Swami, so he was ambivalent and wanted to instead begin his own society.
As we were talking there was a question about an authoritative Bengali scripture which is used in the sampradaya, and the Swami said this:
“In Vrindavan, we do not follow any of these literatures which are not in Sanskrit.” That was the end of the conversation. Total Silence!
The point he was making is that we have to go back to the Srimad Bhagavatam and the Bhagavad Gita and not get too far away from that.
If I were you I would go through the Bhagavad Gita very carefully and see what Krishna explained but look at the Sanskrit otherwise you might get off track as people use the Gita to support their ideas even when the Gita itself is not in support of those ideas.
For instance in the orthodox Hindu community, Gita is used but in Gita, Krishna cuts down polythesism and pushes Himself up as the Supreme God. He outright says that one should not be involved in worshipping the multidemigods of Hindus, and still pandits who lead the Hindu community will read from the Gita as if Krishna is supportive of devata worship. So unless you know the text yourself you will have doubts about yoga and about your progress.
I went to the trouble of translating and then writing three commentaries on the Gita but the first one is there because there I show that Krishna is in support of yoga, something which the Vaishnava sampradaya of which I am a part, has outlawed. I was in the ashram and I was threatened more than once by Swamis and by temple presidents with dismissal from the ashram if I practice meditation or yoga. But there is no support for that in the Gita. I never found any. In fact in the Gita I found support for yoga, so much so that I read the Gita to take help from Krishna directly.
What I am saying is that you are not going to change the sampradaya. And if you let it get on your nerves you will cheat yourself because you will fail to get the help from Krishna which would accelerate your progress. Anyone who reads Gita and looks at the Sanskrit closely, will get help for yoga practice, and by this I mean the 8-fold path of Yoga described by Patanjali. In fact the same definition given by Krishna was used later on by Patanjali. Check the Uddhava Gita about this.
So for me I do not worry about what the people in the sampradaya are saying. It is not our problem that the sampradaya is doing this. That is none of our concern. We should quietly just get Gita and take help from Krishna. It is Krishna’s problem if those who come in his name warp what he said. So we should just let him take care of it as he wishes.
