Identity of the Self
Meditationtime Forum Post
Date: Posted 3 years before Sep 09, 2016
MiBeloved 3 years ago
Correspondence Question:
Does the core-self have an identity of its own, which is converted into thinking, willing and intending?
Does it resemble the mind, but is not the mind?
Or is it the sense-of-identity energy which it leans on?
MiBeloved's Response:
Core-self which have no relationship in service to a Godhead personality, a divine being, has a neutral identity. In our present configuration such a neutral identity is like not having an identity. So persons like the ascetic Ramana Maharshi established that the self was a neutral absolute principle. This makes sense because if something is neutral, then it is outside of reference which makes it seem to be absolute even if it is not actually absolute.
In reference to fire, asbestos has much resistance and so it is regarded as fireproof or completely neutral but we know that asbestos can be destroyed by other means and also by higher than usual degrees of temperature.
The core-self has an identity of it is own. This is evidence by the fact that it assumes an individual designation. Patanjali said that material nature (prakriti) serves the function of providing experiences for consumption (bhogah) by the individual souls but he said that when one soul matures and abandons these experiences, the situations continue for others. So this means that the specific spirit has its own identity.
Even though the core self has its own identity, still that does not prove anything because that identity has to be applied. It is the application of identity that has to be considered. In a sense a neutral identity means no identity at all. We recognize an identity when it is applied to specific circumstances; otherwise it is like the identity does not exist.
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Question:
Does the core-self have an identity of its own, which is converted into thinking, willing and intending?
MiBeloved's Response:
In the material world, the core-self’s identity cannot be converted into anything. This is because a direct application of the spiritual self to the material world is impossible. We have fire, but in a vacuum, fire is not possible. Unless there is gas, fire cannot be in a vacuum. The spiritual self is such that it cannot apply itself directly in the material world to do anything. It can only be in relation to the material world indirectly.
This means that technically speaking, even though the core-self has identity even neutral identity, still it appears as if it has no identity when it is in the material world.
It cannot directly think, will or intend here. It can only do so indirectly in conjunction with some psychic adjuncts. The core self cannot see the material nature. If I cannot see something then the question of relating to it becomes irrelevant. This means that our perception of matter has to be indirect. There has to be some medium which links us to it. We cannot directly be involved with it. And if we are involved, then it must be through some medium, which transfers our interest into material nature and in turn gives us some feedback regarding those transfers.
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Another Question:
Does the core-self resemble the mind, even though it is not the mind?
MiBeloved's Response:
The core self does resemble the mind to some extent. It is not the mind. It is housed in the mind. It lives in the mind, using the mind as an existential residence.
But this information contradicts the other information which was given above where it was described that the core-self cannot relate directly to the material nature, even the subtle material nature, even to the mind which is derived from the ultra-subtle energy of material nature.
The contradiction is reconciled by something called the sense-of-identity. This is a supernatural energy which links the higher frequency core-self to the lower frequency mind. The core-self is surrounded by an invisible energy which forms for that core-self a sense of identity. This energy transfers the raw interest of the core-self to the material world.
Even though it has this interest energy, that is neutral because the core self has no idea initially what it can get from the material world. Consider a person who goes to a market where various commodities are sold. But this person is blind, deaf, tongue-less and has no sense of smell. The only sense he has is that of touch. The only way he can experience anything in the market would be through the sense of touch. All of his decisions must be based on that one sense.
The core-self has an interest energy but it is neutral to everything because it has no other supportive sense which can cause it to get in-depth information. However the sense of identity serves as a helper to the core-self. It is not a perfect helper. In fact it is a very dishonest assistant, but what can the core-self do because when you cannot hear, taste, see or smell, then a dishonest assistant is everything if you do not have any other support.
Initially this core-self has to depend 100% on the sense of identity, and so in the course of millions of years of transmigration every individual spirit, get too trusting its sense of identity even if that adjunct makes some very stupid and downright suicidal decisions.
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Another Question:
Does the core-self lean on the sense-of-identity energy?
MiBeloved's Response:
It has to do this because it has no other way of relating to the material world.
Paul 3 years ago
For Clarification, the question arises...What then is the substance of the core identity?
What is it made out of?
Marcia Beloved 3 years ago
In meditation, I am trying to differentiate between:
thought forms presented by the mind of its own accord and
the directorship and initiative of the core self.
As you stated above, the core self only operates and experiences in material existence by using the sense of identity as its interpreter or go-between (my paraphrasing of the discourse above).
Let me present an example:
In meditation, I reach a point of stillness and thoughts are not occurring.
Then I direct myself to move to the back of the head, or to focus the attention on a certain chakra or somewhere else or to remain in stillness or to do something else. At this point, is it the core self that is acting, directing, utilizing the sense of identity and commanding the other adjuncts, versus being exploited by the adjuncts?
If so, a further inquiry is this:
Will the bare core self act in its own interest?
Or might it be essentially flawed and require assistance and guidance from a higher being?
Is confidence in my core self as a pure or perfect spark of the divine, misplaced confidence?
Is it on the level of the core self, that the real relationship with a guru actually takes place?
MiBeloved 3 years ago
Paul wrote:
For Clarification, the question arises...What then is the substance of the core identity?
What is it made out of?
MiBeloved's Response:
From our perspective, it is made out of dark matter. However when see supernaturally it is made of a supernatural light-frequency energy.
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Marcia Beloved wrote:
In meditation, I reach a point of stillness and thoughts are not occurring.
Then I direct myself to move to the back of the head, or to focus the attention on a certain chakra or somewhere else or to remain in stillness or to do something else. At this point, is it the core self that is acting, directing, utilizing the sense of identity and commanding the other adjuncts, versus being exploited by the adjuncts?
MiBeloved's Response:
The core-self is acting but as it is surrounded by the sense of identity, it cannot do anything by itself because it has a permanent escort which surrounds it, something like the president of a developed country who always has a contingency of secret service goons. If he wants to do something which is not approved, he cannot do that unless the secret service knows about it but they are sworn to secrecy. If he tries to do something good, then they are also present.
However if the president needs to talk to the country, he has to take help from the press secretary and the news networks or the buddhi organ.
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Marcia Beloved wrote:
If so, a further inquiry is this:
Will the bare core self act in its own interest?
Or might it be essentially flawed and require assistance and guidance from a higher being?
MiBeloved's Response:
Unfortunately in reference to the material energy, the core-self has massive ignorance. When there is massive ignorance, assistance and education are necessary.
I am not saying that the core-self is ignorance. That is not what it is. But all the same it has no information about the nature of the material world and so in that sense, in reference to being an informed participant, it is ignorant.
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Marcia Beloved wrote:
Is confidence in my core self as a pure or perfect spark of the divine, misplaced confidence?
MiBeloved's Response:
It is misplaced if you feel that pure and perfect means being informed. Pure gold is pure gold for sure but that does not mean anything if you put the gold in a furnace of a foundry. Being pure this, or being pure of that, does not carry absolute implications necessarily.
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Marcia Beloved wrote:
Is it on the level of the core self, that the real relationship with a guru actually takes place?
MiBeloved's Response:
Relationship with a guru begins on the material level on the physical bodily level. That is its basis. We see a physical guru because we are using physical senses in a physical world. Those of us who have developed subtle perception may see a guru in the astral world. Then we can say that the relationship is on the subtle level based on subtle body perception.
Now if we experience ourselves in a higher level, then we can have a relation with a guru or with anything else which exists on that higher plane.
