I have another question

Meditationtime Forum Post

Date: Posted 3 years before May 22, 2016

Frank 3 years ago

This is something that has been coming up a lot lately. Maybe I am putting too much thought into it, or maybe I am not seeing the bigger picture. Hopefully someone can answer this for me.

Through any kind of effort, I will never exceed any of my limitations.

I will never WILL hard enough to break through any of my limitations, ever.

which leads me to question, what exactly then is the point of meditation?

if when I am on this spiritual path by myself without a road map, not knowing where I am going because I do not know what to expect...how exactly do I know where I'm going, how to get there, and know when I get there?

how am I ever supposed to get from A to B if I do not know what B looks like, or how to get there? on my own, that is.

Really the only thing I can do is make an effort to get there.. however my best effort will only keep me stranded.

are these normal thoughts for someone to have?

MiBeloved 3 years ago

Frank Wrote:

Through any kind of effort, I will never exceed any of my limitations.

MiBeloved’s Response:

There is a machine called a tugboat. This is a very small boat with a very powerful engine. The engine is so powerful that it can pull a large oil tanker all the way across the Pacific. Of course it will take some time because the passage will not be as rapid as if the tanker used its own engines.

The statement should be this:

Through any kind of effort on my own, I will never exceed any of my limitations but if I can get some help I certainly will.

Lucky for you, you have already proven to yourself that you cannot handle this creation. It will overpower you. Therefore you know for sure that unless you take help you cannot make yourself into anything divine and purposeful.

So then we have to take a look at the Christians, where when they are in a fix, they say:

Jesus Christ Be Praised!

So what does that mean? Why call for one of the big guys. After all he might not respond anyway. But at least in that cry, there is the admittance that this creation is just too much for any of us to put our thumbs over.

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Frank Wrote:

I will never WILL hard enough to break through any of my limitations, ever.

MiBeloved’s Response:

This is untrue because in some circumstances we do break through limitations, even though for sure that does not happen in all circumstances. If something is possible just one time, then the statement that it is impossible is a false declaration. What we can say is that your willpower might break through under certain special conditions.

The thing is though that we are in a fix because those special conditions have to be provided by providence, otherwise we are nothing. Today you can fly from New York to Moscow at 500 miles per hour. Two hundred years ago that was completely out of your circumstance. Providence can fix things to facilitate what I want to do but providence can also effectively bar whatever I desire.

In the Bhagavad Gita there is a statement which you should take into consideration and make a detailed study of. Here it is:

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Learn from Me, O mighty-armed man, of the five factors declared in the Sāṁkhya doctrine for the accomplishment of all actions. (18.13)

The location, the agent, the various instruments, the various movements, and destiny, the fifth factor. (18.14)

As for whatever project a human being undertakes with body, speech and mind, regardless of it being moral or immoral, these are its five factors. (18.15)

In that case, whosoever regards himself as the only agent, does not perceive correctly. This is due to the defective intellect of the idiot. (18.16)

++++++++++

Frank Wrote:

which leads me to question, what exactly then is the point of meditation?

MiBeloved’s Response:

It is interesting that a person who reached a point of lowness, or mental and emotional down-ness, considered the idea of meditation.

Well the answer lies in the very question, that meditation is for maxing out your spiritual potential in this given circumstance. Meditation is for making you the best of what you can be spiritually in this physical situation of having a material body. That is its purpose.

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Frank Wrote:

if when I am on this spiritual path by myself without a road map, not knowing where I am going because I do not know what to expect...how exactly do I know where i'm going, how to get there, and know when I get there?

how am I ever supposed to get from A to B if I do not know what B looks like, or how to get there? on my own, that is.

MiBeloved’s Response:

This is a serious problem isn’t it: Imagine that I am going on a journey and I do not know the objective of it? I am disoriented, confused, depressed and directionless.

But the problem was solved in books like Bhagavad Gita and Patanjali Yoga Sutras. Have you read these books? Just think of it in this way, that before you arrived here, there were more intelligent purposeful persons here, persons like Krishna and Patanjali. They left map with instructions on where to go and how to get there. All you need to do is to take a look at their notations which were left behind when they passed through this confusing place.

===================

Frank Wrote:

Really the only thing I can do is make an effort to get there.. however my best effort will only keep me stranded.

MiBeloved’s Response:

This is only true if the rest of the universe observes your pitiful state of mind callously. If the universe nudges just a fraction in your direction, the whole equation will change and you will be on the most purposeful journey ever. We can only wish that for you.

===================

Frank Wrote:

are these normal thoughts for someone to have?

MiBeloved’s Response:

Of course they are not normal thoughts. Usually people do not muse to themselves or their friends about the purpose of life. Mostly people are too busy sucking some pleasure out of life to be concerned with that.

Only a nut will have these kinds of thoughts, but a philosophic nut is way ahead of the crowd in the sense that he can see that there is something amiss in this creation and that just living and living and living and not finding any higher purpose is a vegetative condition. Crazy people who have such thoughts are on the verse of enlightenment if only they would push on with it and join with other mad men who endeavor to break out of this confusion.

Jettins 3 years ago

MiBeloved Wrote:

If the universe nudges just a fraction in your direction, the whole equation will change and you will be on the most purposeful journey ever

Jettins Reply:

Interesting post indeed. I think we are required to go through certain accomplishments, a learning curve, and then I think the universe nudges us when we become ready. But when are we ready? In simple terms I do not know, but a very interesting cosmic play appears to be playing out, it is usually unknown and will determine if we dance.

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This paragraph deserves repetition…

MiBeloved Wrote:

Alfredo 3 years ago

Frank Wrote:

[Through any kind of effort, I will never exceed any of my limitations.]

Alfredo’s Reply:

Yoga is one of those tools given to us to try to exceed our limitations.

Like an ant, who wanting to go from point A to B, has to start somewhere and someday, understands that complaining about the journey won't suffice, and then just starts out.

Of course, trying to exceed our limitations is hard work, it takes moral commitment and responsibility, shedding of poisons, physically and mentally, so that clarity commences to dawn, then Grace may start playing a factor.

unlimitedsun 3 years ago

How goes it Frank?

Just checking to see if you made any headway in your existential miasma or tall order...

Frank 3 years ago

things are going very well!

it's very interesting that you replied to this 40+ day old post and gave me another opportunity to read things that actually manifested in my head.

reading this post now, I cannot believe how near sighted I was. More so, I can't believe anyone actually responded to such a desperate, more-or-less pathetic and downright depressing post.

without a reason, I continued my practice and things are continuously getting better. all of these questions I asked over a month ago I could now answer for myself through experience, even though Michael answered it very well.. some things you just have to learn on the pavement.

I have been reading a lot of books lately that involve the astral body (theosophical stuff) and zen buddhism. A month ago, I cannot say I was necessarily reading the right kinds of stuff for my situation.

every day is a struggle; a test of my will and my faith. I'd like to think I am making headway in this very short physical existence. Thank you so much for giving me the opportunity to come back here and read this. it was something that needed to happen again.

Thomer Scheepens 3 years ago

Good to hear!

Are you doing any Pranayama next to meditation?

unlimitedsun 3 years ago

It is good to hear you so different now. You sounded honest in your endeavors and attempts, and things are working out now.

You had an opening and you made a run for it. You made the choice to go in the right direction, and for that you can pat yourself on the back. For a fact this must be a great challenge!

So, no need to be so hard on your old self. And, may your new found self keep giving you spiritual wealth, balance in life and happiness within.

Keep up the good work!

Frank 3 years ago

I am not, Thomer. I would love to try.

however, I am wary of teachers and techniques. there are millions of ways to do things involving meditation it seems, so I don't know who I should be talking to about this stuff.

I would love to try. if you know where I can learn more about pranayama and grab some techniques I would love that information.

Sun, thanks again. throughout all this reading I have done, I have accumulated a lot more questions that are actually worth asking. perhaps when I get more time I will bring them to meditationtime. I love the information shared on here.

Thomer Scheepens 3 years ago

Hey Frank,

I think this is the right place for Pranayama as well as meditation, so keep posting your experiences progress and results! Almost everyone here is using a very effective rapid breathing pranayama called Bhastrika/Kapalahbati in different asanas (postures).

You can learn more about these 2 breathing methods on other sites to see how it is done and you can ask Michael Beloved or Bernard Adjohdha for a few videos which shows how the whole practice session is done.

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