Continued from above.......

Notice that even though many people feel that the primeval unmanifested state of this creation is the ultimate or the absolute, and they aspire for that, Krishna says there is an environment which is higher than that.

Dean 5 years ago

Michael wrote: Notice that even though many people feel that the primeval unmanifested state of this creation is the ultimate or the absolute, and they aspire for that, Krishna says there is an environment which is higher than that.

Dean's question: So all those dimensions would be accessible in a yoga siddha form, completely forgetting that this existence ever existed?

MiBeloved 5 years ago

Dean's question: So all those dimensions would be accessible in a yoga siddha form, completely forgetting that this existence ever existed?

MiBeloved’s Response:

The only way you can guarantee for yourself that you won’t return to these lower planes of existence is if you were using a subtle body which has no content that relates to these levels. If the subtle body retains content having to do with these planes of existence, then it is always a probability that you will return.

To be sure about it, I want to add that a yoga siddha form is not a spiritual form but it is the form which is the precursor of the spiritual form. It is the form in which you become quarantined from the lower astral planes, in preparation for going to the world which Krishna described which is beyond the primeval unmanifested state of this dissolvable creation.

Those whose objective is to merge into the primeval unmanifested state of this dissolvable creation, may if they are determined enough, reach that level of existence but they will not be allowed to stay there for long. Ask any of these persons, including the yoga masters who attained that state like Sri Ramana Maharshi, if they can explain how they got into the material creation as singled-out individual entities in the first place. Of course Ramana is now deceased. But if you know of any of those masters who are now using a material body, ask that person.

Unless one of these persons can prove that he or she was the cause of the divergence from the primeval unmanifested state, then any idea presented now about controlling his or her existence so as to remain in that stage in oneness is absurd.

Srila Yogeshwarananda was an Arya Samajist by religion. These are people who do not believe so much in a deity. They feel that the ultimate is just an absolute energy. In fact Yogesh translated part of the Vedas under the title of the Essential Colorlessness of Absolute just to verify that idea. And yet, when questioned closely about remaining in the absolute, he honestly admitted that no one can say that they can permanently do that because in the first place, that person would have to explain how they got differentiated out of that oneness in the first place.

The whole idea of remaining in some oneness is totally absurd. Krishna dumped it in a statement where he told Arjuna that once a person has existed, there is no turning back to any merged existence ever. That is not going to happen permanently.  What will happen is that the person will be segregated when Fate allows or decrees and will be merged or will lose the sense of separate I-ness when Fate sees fit.

When the universe crashes, then we are out of it, unless we have left for some higher dimension. When the universe begins again and there are suitable environments in the process of evolution, then we will find ourselves to be individuals again. That is how it operates.

To get a yoga siddha body, you have to endeavor. If you are successful, then the next step is to get a spiritual body. This is where you have to wake up to the fact that it is not possible to assume that unless you have a relationship with a deity from the spiritual environments.

In the next verse of the Gita following what I quoted before, Krishna mentioned that in no uncertain terms:

That Supreme Person, O son of Pṛthā, is attainable through a devotional relationship and not by any other means. Within His influence, all beings exist. By Him, all the universe is energized. (8.22)

To avoid having to deal with these deities, some yogis attain what is called the brahman effulgence, brahmananda. Look at the chart below:

Just as on this side of existence one gets a form based on relationship with someone as a father and mother, so on the spiritual side one gets a spiritual form based on a relationship with a deity from that sort of world.

Dear Beloved 5 years ago

I like the picture above that shows the levels of progression.  Which level equates to the sky of consciousness?

Dean 5 years ago

Michael wrote: Just as on this side of existence one gets a form based on relationship with someone as a father and mother, so on the spiritual side one gets a spiritual form based on a relationship with a deity from that sort of world.

Dean's question: Does this verse from the Bhagavad Gita refer to this location?

The sun does not illuminate that place, nor the moon, nor the fire. Having gone to that location, they never return. That is My supreme residence. (15.6)

As this verse from the Anu Gita Explained (2:36):

That which is the regions of all forms of the stars, the orbiting moon which shines on the earth, the self-effulgent orbiting sun, all situated in their realms; know these as the locations attained by those who perform socially-beneficial acts.

MiBeloved 5 years ago

Reply to Dear's inquiry:

There are two skies of consciousness; one is on this side of the existential divide. The other is the other side in full. On this side the sky of consciousness begins on the supernatural level where the highest deities like Brahma, Buddha and such divine beings have their residences and under-control domains.

Above the level where they are, there is the causal plane, which is a zone in which individuality is suppressed so that one’s will power is de-activated. Slight pre-thoughts occur there but they never develop into anything because they cannot be transformed into will power. This causal plane has the essence of everything which occurs in the material world, but in a non-expressed compressed energy form. This is a nice place to be, a place where great yogis sometimes spends millions of years, studying. Without an active intellect, of course such study is totally in the realms of subjectivity which makes it extremely abstract.

Srila Yogeshwarananda has just recently spent many years in the causal plane, but about it, he is completely silent.

A serious yogi foregoes this material existence and all the social benefits it has to offer, and its challenges, to go to the causal level where all this is no more. The yogi does this, for the reason of seeing how he or she was held spell bound by desires.

Patanjali issued an alert which says that hope and desire energies are eternal. This is heads-up to prevent student yogis from thinking that their hope and desire energies can be terminated. That is not going to happen because these energies have come out of the causal plane which a limited spirit, even as a yogi cannot alter in the least. But still it does become necessary at some stage of practice to confront desires and root them out. It is at that stage that a yogi gets interested in researching what the causal plane is all about.

Beyond the causal plane there is a blank area such that if you went there, your sense of individuality, your sense of self, everything, would vanish. Yogis, who enter this plane, find that when they go there, they lose track of themselves and then they find themselves again on some lower plane, according to how far they had progressed. Unless a yogi gets pre-trained in how to pass through this place, he cannot successfully get through this area because the will to do so and his motive for doing so and his power to act, will be lost as soon as he enters this plane.

This might be compared to say, when the pilot of an aircraft loses his sense of direction because of erratic movements of the craft and foggy weather. If he has no instruments on board, then he is finished. He will crash and either get hurt or crash and die and finds himself in some other existence.

Srila Yogeshwarananda is of the view that one cannot tell what is beyond this plane from this side of existence. In the Srimad Bhagavatam there is a story about Arjuna who is said to have gone through this place. Once when Arjuna took a vow to protect a brahmin’s children, he was unable to fulfill the promise and so he made a move to kill his body. At the time if a prince made a vow in public and did not fulfill it then he had to commit suicide.

A brahmin was losing his children one after the other, due to death in childbirth. This brahmin went to complain to the king who was Ugrasena, I think. In those days there was a superstition that untimely death was caused by the actions of the ruler of the country.

Anyway the brahim got disgusted and said that the whole of the Yadu family were unqualified rulers. When he said that Arjuna was with the Yadus. Arjuna became related to them because he married Subhadra the sister of Krishna.

So Arjuna then said to the brahmin, that he was a prince from another ruling family, the Kauravas, and that he would protect the brahmin’s wife from another still born incidence.

It so happened that the next child died as well and Arjuna was disgraced. He did everything he could including chanting mantras, doing rituals, putting spells on his weapons, using kriya yoga methods which he had learnt. In any case, fate struck. So then when Arjuna was to commit suicide Krishna told Arjuna not to do it. Arjuna then said he had to because he failed to protect the child and his reputation was at stake.

Krishna then took Arjuna to meet the person who was the cause of the death of the child. Since that person was a deity in the spiritual world, Krishna took Arjuna through this place, the place of nothingness, the location of absence. There is a description of it in the Srimad Bhagavatam.

You can cross this place successfully if you have the grace of a deity from the spiritual side; otherwise you can’t because your existence does not carry within it the required propulsion energy to push you through this place into the spiritual sky of consciousness.

Notice the word spiritual, because the sky of consciousness which is on this side of the existential divide is the supernatural sky of consciousness.

If you attempt to enter the supernatural sky of consciousness, you will go blank for a period of time and then you will again come out in the material world somewhere, just like that. As a piece of Styrofoam cannot remain at the bottom of the sea, so a limited entity cannot remain in this place.

Let us assume however that you do cross this place. Then what will be next? Well you will enter into the brahman effulgence. And there you will find that you are resident and that is it. Unless you are pulled by a deity from the spiritual places, you will not be able to go beyond this place. Arjuna went though this place. It was a blinding light.

This place is called Sat in the Upanishads and in the Bhagavad Gita. Sat translated in that usage means the Reality, That which is.

So in the Upanishads there is the mantra which is

Tat Twam Asi

Which means that you (twam) are (asi) that which is (tat), or that you are from this place. This is your point of origin in so far as location goes. But when were you located there?

Well to find that out you would have to go back in time, to the time before your core-self began transmigrating in these material worlds?

Gautama Buddha Guruji went to this place and also noted his trillions of transmigrations after initially coming out of this place. He noted that in this place there is no separated-out individuality. There is no cultural self, nothing. So he then preached about anatma, non-self, no-identity. In this place all the selves are neutral existences all compacted together as glaring specks of spiritual light.

One of the special things which Yogi Bhajan gave us was the process of breath infusion to raise kundalini. During that practice, the student sometimes gets propelled into this place where there is sheer spiritual light and spiritual pleasure energy. This gives the yogi first hand information about the nature of this place. It is said to be nirguna which means without (nir) guna (qualities or attributes which are found in the material world)

Getting back to your question, the sky of consciousness is a general term covering many levels of existence as in the chart below. To think that it is only one place is fallacious but initially one should think like that or this whole course of yoga can seem very complicated, which might discourage little minds...

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Dean's question: Does this verse from the Bhagavad Gita refer to this location?

The sun does not illuminate that place, nor the moon, nor the fire. Having gone to that location, they never return. That is My supreme residence. (15.6)

MiBeloved’s Response:

Yes, this verse relates to that.

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Dean: As this verse from the Anu Gita Explained (2:36):

That which is the regions of all forms of the stars, the orbiting moon which shines on the earth, the self-effulgent orbiting sun, all situated in their realms; know these as the locations attained by those who perform socially-beneficial acts.

MiBeloved’s Response:

No this verse does not refer to that. This verse refers to the astral heavens and to a limited degree to the highest astral zones.

Arp 5 years ago

Michael wrote: Question is: Why does the subtle body not maintain itself in the fully infused condition? Why does it relapse?

I will let you ponder on this and answer at your leisure based on your observing of your psychic behaviors.

Arp Response:

I have noticed that the infused energy lapses when there is any kind of mental or physical activity of the body after few hours of ending the meditation. May be the infused energy is getting absorbed by the impurities in the subtle body, so it is unable to maintain the high vibratory state.  Do let me know if I am wrong.

MiBeloved 5 years ago

Arp wrote:

I have noticed that the infused energy lapses when there is any kind of mental or physical activity of the body after few hours of ending the meditation. May be the infused energy is getting absorbed by the impurities in the subtle body, so it is unable to maintain the high vibratory state. Do let me know if I am wrong.

MiBeloved’s Response:

This is correct but it is more like the subtle body has a default energy intake which is a low percentage of high pranic energy. It tries to normalize itself as soon as the yogi stops the breath infusion. This takes time. Usually within 20 -30 minutes, not hours as you stated, the subtle body gets back to its default level of conscious energy intake. If for you it is two hours, then it means that your breath infusion process is very efficient. That is great!

As you stated, mental and physical activity quickly consumes the infused energy, but this consumption is ongoing and does not have to be deliberate. You do not have to do anything mental or physical for the energy to be consumed. The psyche itself is always involved in energy consumption, either rapidly or gradually according to its mode at any said time.

But here is the thing to really peek at:

Why does the subtle body not remain on the higher plane? Why does it act in a way within itself so as to lower itself? If you got a million dollars by winning the lottery, why waste the money? Why not spend it in a way where you would remain in a wealthy status, where the money is reinvested sensibly?

And also why is the self unable to monitor the subtle body’s behavior in this self-degrading way?

In the physical world, they say that what goes up must come down. Thanks to science, we know now that this is relative truth, relative to the force of gravity, which is not a force to be banished by wishful thinking. Even though science has proven that gravity is the culprit in this case, not one single scientist has mastered this gravity without spending millions of dollars to put an astronaut into space, so for the most part, the knowledge of it is just knowledge and nothing else. It is possible to transcend that force but for every human being who does so in a spaceship, it takes millions of dollars to accomplish the escape velocity. What causes the subtle body to be under a similar law where whatever energy infusion it gets, that is consumed by it and brings it back to the lower levels? What is the gravity in that case?

Arp 5 years ago

Michael wrote:

What causes the subtle body to be under a similar law where whatever energy infusion it gets, that is consumed by it and brings it back to the lower levels? What is the gravity in that case?

Arp Response:

I guess it is the dense astral energy which acts as a gravity and pulls the subtle body to the lower state. So the solution would be to raise kundalini and purify the body and psyche.