Continued from above.......

द्रोणं च भीष्मं च जयद्रथं च

कर्णं तथान्यानपि योधवीरान् ।

मया हतांस्त्वं जहि मा व्यथिष्ठा

युध्यस्व जेतासि रणे सपत्नान् ॥११.३४॥

droṇaṁ ca bhīṣmaṁ ca jayadrathaṁ ca

karṇaṁ tathānyānapi yodhavīrān

mayā hatāṁstvaṁ jahi mā vyathiṣṭhā

yudhyasva jetāsi raṇe sapatnān (11.34)

droṇaḥ — Droṇa; ca — and; bhīṣmaṁ — Bhishma; ca — and; jayadrathaṁ — Jayadratha; ca —.and; karṇaṁ — Karṇa; tathānyān = tathā — as well as; anyān — others; api — also: yodhavīrān — battle heroes; mayā — by me; hatāṁ — supernaturally hurt; tvaṁ — you; jahi — physically kill; mā — not; vyathiṣṭhā — hesitate; yudhyasva — fight; jetāsi — you will conquer; raṇe — in battle; sapatnān — enemies

Droṇa, Bhishma, Jayadratha, and Karṇa, as well as other battle heroes, were supernaturally hurt by Me. You may physically kill them. Do not hesitate. Fight! You will conquer the enemies in battle. (11.34)

संजय उवाच

एतच्छ्रुत्वा वचनं केशवस्य

कृताञ्जलिर्वेपमानः किरीटी ।

नमस्कृत्वा भूय एवाह कृष्णं

सगद्गदं भीतभीतः प्रणम्य ॥११.३५॥

saṁjaya uvāca

etacchrutvā vacanaṁ keśavasya

kṛtāñjalirvepamānaḥ kirīṭī

namaskṛtvā bhūya evāha kṛṣṇaṁ

sagadgadaṁ bhītabhītaḥ praṇamya (11.35)

saṁjaya — Sanjaya; uvāca — said; etat — this; śrutvā — having heard; vacanaṁ — speech; keśavasya — of the handsome-haired Krsna; kṛtāñjalil— offering respects with joined palms; vepamānah — trembling; kirīṭī — Arjuna, the crowned one; namaskṛtvā = namaḥ — obeisances + krtvā — having made; bhūya — again; evāha = eva — indeed + aha — said; kṛṣṇaṁ — Kṛṣṇaṁ; sagadgadaṁ — stutteringly; bhītabhītaḥ — very frightened; praṇamya — prostrations

Sanjaya said: Having heard the speech of the handsome-haired Krishna, Arjuna, the crowned one, who was trembling, offered respect with joined palms. Bowing again, he stutteringly, with much fright and prostrations, spoke to Krishna. (11.35)

It is a perversion and it is dead wrong to write that into our vision of time if we do not in fact see it in that way. The superimposition of the theory of what Arjuna actually experiences as described hurts yoga practice and causes the students to stagnate in spiritual development. Yoga is not religious belief and it does not seek to destroy religious belief either, but it is just not that and it does not concern reinforcing that.

It is a split off from that. This is why the advocated of religious belief are hostile to it and advise their followers to leave it aside. It is because it is not really supportive of religious belief and is for those who are done with that, who have exhausted the worth of that and who want something more.

Religious belief stands on its own supports but it is not yoga. A student yogi does not have to abandon his or her religious belief to do yoga, but those energies need to stand aside, and allow the student to develop into actual perceptions in the way yoga will yield those, without demanding that yoga subordinate itself and work around or support and reinforce those beliefs.

A student in yoga must start with nothing if that is what he or she has, no experience, nothing and then over time build up some experience bit by bit. This account of experience must be kept isolated from the religious belief, otherwise a certain self-dishonesty will take place and the whole practice of yoga will be ruined and the student will turn out to be a hypocrite or a hybrid farce yogi.

The religious belief in the psyche should be kept in a separate account and not mixed in but if there are similarities or if something from the yoga experience, exactly or partially, matches the belief, then that should be acknowledged for sure.

In the experience above there was no direct correlation with what Arjuna saw when he asked Krishna about Krishna being that and what that was and what the purpose of such an existence was. Krishna then declared that his identity on that plane of existence was time itself and that he approached certain members of the Kuru family to wipe them off the face of the earth, to remove their access to history.

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In my original post above, I was not speaking about what Arjuna saw and I did not see Krishna as time in that same way that Arjuna was in the revelation of the Universal Form. I perceived the influence of the planetary bodies and their imposition of destiny on planet earth, on our environment. Is Krishna involved in that?

According to the Bhagavad Gita he is but I did not see his involvement at the time of the perceiving what I wrote above. Even Arjuna did not just say he saw Krishna's influence even after Krishna explained in detail that influence in chapter 10 of Bhagavad Gita. Even after the Universal Form was first displayed Arjuna still kept saying that he did not directly see anything like that and that what Krishna was describing was not directly perceivable. That caused the necessity for Krishna to show Arjuna the universal form so that Arjuna could directly perceive this influence of Krishna as described.

It is a serious violence to a devotee, a self-defeating habit when he assumes that he saw these things or that these things are part of his integrated vision when in fact he did not see anything and did not verify by direct perception anything of what Krishna said.

And this direct verification is not solidified belief based on faith in the Gita or in what one was told by an authoritative speaker. Direct verification means having the supportive revelation. It does not mean believing the supportive revelation which someone else had.

Have you ever seen the Universal Form of Krishna directly, in any of its phases for even a split second? Can you recall and explain to us what that was like? Did the revelation stay on with you because if it did then that is quite exceptional because it did not stay on with Arjuna as we hear in the Anu Gita?